Current Affairs EU In or Out

[NilSatisOptimum]

Every just calm down project fear has been abated, May has introduced a new ministerial position, Minster of adequate food supplies, David Rutley has this much cavorted position.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...upplies-minister-amid-fears-of-no-deal-brexit

 

[Tubey]

Don’t be silly Tubey. You may not agree with him, but this ‘let’s have another vote because we really didn’t like the result of the first one’.....is against the democratic process........

That's not the argument and you know it - the new vote is simply because the whole thing is a massive circus and it's become abundantly clear nobody knows what we voted for because nobody has a clue what to do.

We voted to leave; we don't vote on how to leave. The limitations of that referendum question are abundantly clear, and yet another indication of why the bloody thing was non-binary.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

2072

I'm exhausted by the whole thing and between a banking crisis, a currency crisis, a migration crisis, an institutional crisis, nationalist parties on the rise, Italy and Greece spiralling into a financial black hole and countries like Austria, Poland and Hungary literally just ignoring it now I don't see how the EU will survive another decade anyway.

Sounds like you have been reading the Tory press too much. The EU is working just fine for those countries that want to be in it and will be around for a long time to come.

 

[peteblue]

That's not the argument and you know it - the new vote is simply because the whole thing is a massive circus and it's become abundantly clear nobody knows what we voted for because nobody has a clue what to do.

We voted to leave; we don't vote on how to leave. The limitations of that referendum question are abundantly clear, and yet another indication of why the bloody thing was non-binary.

I knew what I voted for. I voted to leave the EU, completely.....as I suspect did the other 17.4 Million people....this ‘how’ to leave is just another remainer ploy to undermine the vote. They tried saying that we were all stupid, and racist, and didn’t know what we voted for. Now they are trying to be a bit more subtle, with hard and soft, how, etc etc. But no one is buying it, it’s still just another attempt to reverse the vote.....After the way the EU has behaved I find it difficult for any remainer to still want to be part of it tbh.......

 

[The binman chronicles]

I knew what I voted for. I voted to leave the EU, completely.....as I suspect did the other 17.4 Million people....this ‘how’ to leave is just another remainer ploy to undermine the vote. They tried saying that we were all stupid, and racist, and didn’t know what we voted for. Now they are trying to be a bit more subtle, with hard and soft, how, etc etc. But no one is buying it, it’s still just another attempt to reverse the vote.....After the way the EU has behaved I find it difficult for any remainer to still want to be part of it tbh.......

I wouldn't be so quick to poo poo a 2nd referendum, it's looking more and more like the only way you'll be able to push through brexit is via another one if Labour are going to spoil any deal that doesn't keep us in the customs union.

 

[Ruairi77]

Let yourself down there.....

Not really

 

[Adam-GOTTV]

2072

Sounds like you have been reading the Tory press too much. The EU is working just fine for those countries that want to be in it and will be around for a long time to come.

Yeah, it's working just fine mate. Here are some well-known Tory publications like The Guardian, The Independent, Forbes, The Huffington Post, The FT, Harvard University, The Japan Times, France 24, and The London School of Economics covering the multiple crises (that I referenced on the last page) facing the Union.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/21/greece-europe-eu-austerity
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...make-sense-its-eurozone-rules-that-are-absurd
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...alian-spanish-political-turmoil-business-live
http://www.theguardian.pe.ca/business/a-willingness-to-fix-the-euros-flaws-is-fading-fast-203221/
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jun/13/euro-growth-eurozone-joseph-stiglitz
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-v-micallef/europes-next-financial-cr_b_10315364.html
https://www.ft.com/content/2951caa2-63ed-11e8-a39d-4df188287fff
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/markesposito/files/eurocrisis.pdf
https://www.ft.com/content/2872b844-73e7-11e8-aa31-31da4279a601
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...hree-years-merkels-fateful-call/#.W6yAvFLTXOQ
https://www.france24.com/en/2018060...anean-sea-european-union-italy-matteo-salvini
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ion-border-new-asylum-policy-eu-a8429286.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...stria-coast-guard-mediterranean-a8397176.html
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2017/07/03/europe-legitimacy-crisis-identity-institutions/

One of the most compelling arguments made by remain was staying in the EU to reform the EU, would people have made that argument if everything was fine?

In fact, don't answer that mate. If you're just gonna flippantly dismiss people who disagree with you like that then there's no point.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yeah, it's working just fine mate. Here are some well-known Tory publications like The Guardian, The Independent, Forbes, The Huffington Post, The FT, Harvard University, The Japan Times, France 24, and The London School of Economics covering the multiple crises (that I referenced on the last page) facing the Union.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/21/greece-europe-eu-austerity
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...make-sense-its-eurozone-rules-that-are-absurd
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...alian-spanish-political-turmoil-business-live
http://www.theguardian.pe.ca/business/a-willingness-to-fix-the-euros-flaws-is-fading-fast-203221/
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jun/13/euro-growth-eurozone-joseph-stiglitz
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-v-micallef/europes-next-financial-cr_b_10315364.html
https://www.ft.com/content/2951caa2-63ed-11e8-a39d-4df188287fff
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/markesposito/files/eurocrisis.pdf
https://www.ft.com/content/2872b844-73e7-11e8-aa31-31da4279a601
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...hree-years-merkels-fateful-call/#.W6yAvFLTXOQ
https://www.france24.com/en/2018060...anean-sea-european-union-italy-matteo-salvini
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ion-border-new-asylum-policy-eu-a8429286.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...stria-coast-guard-mediterranean-a8397176.html
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2017/07/03/europe-legitimacy-crisis-identity-institutions/

One of the most compelling arguments made by remain was staying in the EU to reform the EU, would people have made that argument if everything was fine?

In fact, don't answer that mate. If you're just gonna flippantly dismiss people who disagree with you like that then there's no point.

That's kinda inevitable though isn't it? We had the biggest financial crash in 100 years a decade ago, which created tremendous challenges across society. These challenges made it really easy for politicians to try and blame foreigners, which with the Syrian crisis exacerbated. It's a difficult situation, but the grown up response isn't to walk away from difficult situations but to deal with them, safe in the knowledge that it's better to deal with them collectively than retreat into dog-eat-dog isolationism.

 

[peteblue]

I wouldn't be so quick to poo poo a 2nd referendum, it's looking more and more like the only way you'll be able to push through brexit is via another one if Labour are going to spoil any deal that doesn't keep us in the customs union.

Labour cannot stop it. Only tories voting against the government can stop it......

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

One of the most compelling arguments made by remain was staying in the EU to reform the EU, would people have made that argument if everything was fine?

In fact, don't answer that mate. If you're just gonna flippantly dismiss people who disagree with you like that then there's no point.

OK I won't. By the way, I didn't "flippantly dismiss" anyone, I merely replied to your post offering a view from an EU country which is happy to remain in it.

 

[Adam-GOTTV]

OK I won't. By the way, I didn't "flippantly dismiss" anyone, I merely replied to your post offering a view from an EU country which is happy to remain in it.

"Happy to remain in it" is different to "everything is fine".

And you weren't just merely doing that, you were trying to paint me as some gullible idiot who gets tricked by the Tory press, which is a convenient way to paint people who are offering counter points and you got likes for it so well in. I personally don't resort to those tactics but more power to you.

Look, I wish it wasn't so. But the European Union is in a very bad way. I'm not saying Britain or other individual member states aren't, but I don't know how it reverses this mess without huge directional changes that I don't see coming. Sorry.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

"Happy to remain in it" is different to "everything is fine".

And you weren't just merely doing that, you were trying to paint me as some gullible idiot who gets tricked by the Tory press, which is a convenient way to paint people who are offering counter points and you got likes for it so well in. I personally don't resort to those tactics but more power to you.

Look, I wish it wasn't so. But the European Union is in a very bad way. I'm not saying Britain or other individual member states aren't, but I don't know how it reverses this mess without huge directional changes that I don't see coming. Sorry.

Paranoid.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

"Happy to remain in it" is different to "everything is fine".

And you weren't just merely doing that, you were trying to paint me as some gullible idiot who gets tricked by the Tory press, which is a convenient way to paint people who are offering counter points and you got likes for it so well in. I personally don't resort to those tactics but more power to you.

Look, I wish it wasn't so. But the European Union is in a very bad way. I'm not saying Britain or other individual member states aren't, but I don't know how it reverses this mess without huge directional changes that I don't see coming. Sorry.

I've got an outstanding invoice from them so if they could pay that before collapsing I'd be dead grateful.

 

[TraffordBlue]

I knew what I voted for. I voted to leave the EU, completely.....as I suspect did the other 17.4 Million people....this ‘how’ to leave is just another remainer ploy to undermine the vote. They tried saying that we were all stupid, and racist, and didn’t know what we voted for. Now they are trying to be a bit more subtle, with hard and soft, how, etc etc. But no one is buying it, it’s still just another attempt to reverse the vote.....After the way the EU has behaved I find it difficult for any remainer to still want to be part of it tbh.......

This "how to leave" is quite important though, and that is where your simplistic view falls down. It's not just a case of leaving completely and then carrying on as normal, or even moving forward with success. What about the Irish Border problem. People on the leave side can claim it's not a problem, or that technology can solve it here and now but both would be untrue claims. What about barriers to trade? What about controlling our borders since you want to leave the EU completely?

You can't just say we want out and have no actual plan, which seems to be what many on the leave side seem to be hoping for. It is not a credible solution.

As for your final bit that I have highlighted, what about the way "we" as in those in Government representing the UK, have behaved? Theresa May seems to think she is going to be able to deliver what the leave side want, come out of the EU, and then strike up some deal which will get the best parts of what the EU has to offer and they're just going to go along with it.

It's pure delusion and has managed to unite the vast majority on both sides against her ridiculous plan.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

"Happy to remain in it" is different to "everything is fine".

And you weren't just merely doing that, you were trying to paint me as some gullible idiot who gets tricked by the Tory press, which is a convenient way to paint people who are offering counter points and you got likes for it so well in. I personally don't resort to those tactics but more power to you.

Look, I wish it wasn't so. But the European Union is in a very bad way. I'm not saying Britain or other individual member states aren't, but I don't know how it reverses this mess without huge directional changes that I don't see coming. Sorry.

Britain won't be the only to leave it within the next 5 years.

They needed to reform. Cameron tried the reforms, failed. Their arrogance/stubbornness played a huge part in Brexit and what we're now seeing in Italy etc.