Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Joey66]

It underlines the difficulties when negotiating though doesn't it? Our trade with countries like Czech and Poland is relatively small, but the movement of people is a much more important concern. We've seen similar issues emerge in our discussions with the likes of India, where they are less bothered about trade (which is fairly low) as about the movement of people, especially of students who wish to learn at British universities. As the migration report clearly stated earlier this week, the fears blown up around migration before, during and after the Brexit campaign have been largely false, and instead, migration brings considerable benefits to the UK.

I know you're a fan of the points system deployed by the likes of Canada and Australia, but 22% of the Canadian population, and 28% of the Australian population are foreign born citizens (as opposed to 13% in the UK, and 9.4% for the EU as a whole). So whilst both Canada and Australia do attempt to manage migration, they certainly don't do so with the aim of reducing it.

Bruce we need immigration because of skill shortages, free movement is not needed IMO...

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Bruce we need immigration because of skill shortages, free movement is not needed IMO...

At the risk of repeating myself though Joe, the stats have shown for well over a decade now that migrants from the EU are more likely to be in work, and more likely to be highly skilled, than those we voluntarily let in from outside the EU. I can't really fathom why you persist in this belief that the government will do a better job of 'managing' immigration when the stats clearly say that things work out much better when they have nothing to do with it whatsoever.

I mean I'm sure when you were growing your plants, you wouldn't have a method that worked much better than others and stop using it. You'd go with the evidence in front of your very eyes, so I don't understand why you choose not to with this issue.

 

[edge]

Bruce we need immigration because of skill shortages, free movement is not needed IMO...

you know what Joey I know its fashionable to see the younger kids as all self entitled cry arses , but they have badly been let down for decades as successive governments of both persuasions that have failed to invest in there futures , ie training in skills we are short in, its been to easy to rape other poorer counties of there skilled people than invest in are own.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

you know what Joey I know its fashionable to see the younger kids as all self entitled cry arses , but they have badly been let down for decades as successive governments of both persuasions that have failed to invest in there futures , ie training in skills we are short in, its been to easy to rape other poorer counties of there skilled people than invest in are own.

I don't understand that rhetoric at all. Whilst I don't know every migrant in the UK, all of the migrants that I do know voluntarily chose to come here for various reasons. Many have trained whilst being here, and some have gone back to their homeland having gained a great deal in terms of skills and experience. This idea that we're heading off to foreign lands to kidnap a whole bunch of graduates, ferrying them here in shackles is well off the mark.

 

[Joey66]

you know what Joey I know its fashionable to see the younger kids as all self entitled cry arses , but they have badly been let down for decades as successive governments of both persuasions that have failed to invest in there futures , ie training in skills we are short in, its been to easy to rape other poorer counties of there skilled people than invest in are own.

Spot on the university route is promoted far too much- instead of vocational skills

 

[edge]

I don't understand that rhetoric at all. Whilst I don't know every migrant in the UK, all of the migrants that I do know voluntarily chose to come here for various reasons. Many have trained whilst being here, and some have gone back to their homeland having gained a great deal in terms of skills and experience. This idea that we're heading off to foreign lands to kidnap a whole bunch of graduates, ferrying them here in shackles is well off the mark.

Not the point I was making but, due to us as a country not investing in the skill set of the population we have taken skills from counties like India, there are nearly 34,000 Filipino and Indian workers in the NHS alone, there are loads more nationalities on top of that from Africa ect
That is a drain on there counties skills base and finances they can ill afford, for no other reason than its cheaper than training people from scratch here , let the others bear that cost of training, while denying your own young people the chance access the skillsets that could make there lives and are's better(, ie getting off after brexit if that's what they want to do), is madness.
I don't blame the nurses ect for coming here to gain a better life, more money or what ever the kudos of having worked in the NHS on there cv rather than the good kama hospital Mumbai or whatever(only joking there)
I know a lot of them go on to other countries after working here , don't blame them in the slightest for doing that, the fault isn't with them its with us as a country. I wouldn't have a problem training them along side are workforce if they were infract going onwards to make the poorer counties heath systems better.
We should invest in the young people in this country to do these jobs long term. was my point
It more than likely has a human cost in there home counties were we entice them from as well., so doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Not the point I was making but, due to us as a country not investing in the skill set of the population we have taken skills from counties like India, there are nearly 34,000 Filipino and Indian workers in the NHS alone, there are loads more nationalities on top of that from Africa ect
That is a drain on there counties skills base and finances they can ill afford, for no other reason than its cheaper than training people from scratch here , let the others bear that cost of training, while denying your own young people the chance access the skillsets that could make there lives and are's better(, ie getting off after brexit if that's what they want to do), is madness.
I don't blame the nurses ect for coming here to gain a better life, more money or what ever the kudos of having worked in the NHS on there cv rather than the good kama hospital Mumbai or whatever(only joking there)
I know a lot of them go on to other countries after working here , don't blame them in the slightest for doing that, the fault isn't with them its with us as a country. I wouldn't have a problem training them along side are workforce if they were infract going onwards to make the poorer counties heath systems better.
We should invest in the young people in this country to do these jobs long term. was my point
It more than likely has a human cost in there home counties were we entice them from as well., so doesn't sit well with me.

That isn't what actually happens though. I know it's intuitive, but it's not supported by evidence. In reality, migrants help their country of origin in two main ways. Firstly, they gain experience abroad that is then hugely beneficial when they return to their country of origin. Secondly, the prospect of emigration is known to increase the motivation to study and get the skills that would be in demand overseas, but not all of those who desire to emigrate actually do, yet they have the in-demand skills to deploy at home. Countries like those in the EU, which are more developed, tend to gain from emigration of their citizens. It's only small and very poor countries that tend not to.

I do quite agree with you on the need to do so much more to train the native population however, and it was quite sad to see the latest TUC report on work in an age of automation not touching on training and development once. When even the unions don't seem bothered by training, it does make you wonder.

 

[edge]

That isn't what actually happens though. I know it's intuitive, but it's not supported by evidence. In reality, migrants help their country of origin in two main ways. Firstly, they gain experience abroad that is then hugely beneficial when they return to their country of origin. Secondly, the prospect of emigration is known to increase the motivation to study and get the skills that would be in demand overseas, but not all of those who desire to emigrate actually do, yet they have the in-demand skills to deploy at home. Countries like those in the EU, which are more developed, tend to gain from emigration of their citizens. It's only small and very poor countries that tend not to.

I do quite agree with you on the need to do so much more to train the native population however, and it was quite sad to see the latest TUC report on work in an age of automation not touching on training and development once. When even the unions don't seem bothered by training, it does make you wonder.

it should be at the forefront along with job safety,job creation, and conditions .Unions need to engage with there members and the wider workforce and modernise , reach out more or they will continue to shrink in numbers and relevance, been in a union all my life, but seeing a lot of the younger workers not interested.
I was reading the other week about India health the other week ,(bored in work again) its shocking mate , they have over a million doctors,(27% are doctors on paper only don't practice) of those left only 10% work for the free health system , when you consider there population numbers, poverty levels , works out thousand of people for every hospital bed .
anyway that's not an EU issue as normal I have gone off track so lets not derail the tread

 

[peteblue]

Never thought I'd agree with anything Babiš said.

It’s the EU way, keep voting until they are happy with the result......

I wonder if they would agree for every other EU country to have a referendum as well......

 

[arminisgod]

It’s the EU way, keep voting until they are happy with the result......

I wonder if they would agree for every other EU country to have a referendum as well......

I voted to leave but I was undecided until the very end. But with what's happening and how the EU are taking it i'm 100% certain I did the right thing now. I want out of the rabble.

 

[peteblue]

Personally I think a second vote would be good: the first one was pretty close and the 48% feel the 52% were ill-informed.

I love that 48% feel that the 52% were ill-informed. Almost as though we had two BBC’s, two of every newspaper, two sets of information on the internet and two totally different government pamphlets through the door. Obviously the 48% feel they were well informed, they were only subjected to good information, but I’m not sure how or why........

 

[peteblue]

I voted to leave but I was undecided until the very end. But with what's happening and how the EU are taking it i'm 100% certain I did the right thing now. I want out of the rabble.

I think more and more feel the same way. Instead of throwing their arms around us and trying to convince us otherwise, they have thrown their toys out of the pram and tried to threaten us and demean us in a very public manner. They still don’t get it.......

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I think more and more feel the same way. Instead of throwing their arms around us and trying to convince us otherwise, they have thrown their toys out of the pram and tried to threaten us and demean us in a very public manner. They still don’t get it.......

To be fair, Arminisgod wanted to leave because he didn't like hearing Poles speaking Polish in his supermarket. There's a limit to what TLC should strive to achieve.

 

[dublinbluenose]

Ouch

 

[larrygobfiend]

I think more and more feel the same way. Instead of throwing their arms around us and trying to convince us otherwise, they have thrown their toys out of the pram and tried to threaten us and demean us in a very public manner. They still don’t get it.......

What are you most looking forward to when we leave the EU, mate?