Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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that is why uncontrolled immigration is so unpredictable,and open to abuse by employers in our country to low paid workers gang masters also why do jobs get advertised in the EU and not in our Job centres first?.....

If you're worried about employers abusing their workers, why not put the energy that's gone into Brexit into something dramatically more simple, which might actually address the issue, like demanding that the government bother to enforce existing labour legislation (rather than the current policy of gutting the budget for basically any form of regulation or oversight)

Leaving the EU in response to UK labour exploitation is like shooting your legs off with a bazooka because your toe itches.

Not to mention that the main reason why people like Rees-Mogg support Brexit is because they think it will allow them to exploit people even further still.

It takes some doing for an institution as neo-liberal and undemocratic as the EU to represent moderation, social democracy, and the rule of law, but that's Tory Britain for you...

EDIT: oh and for the "what does neo-liberalism even mean"? pedants among us, it means this
 
Well if we are leaving the EU instead of squabbling in the house of commons and get a better elected Lords who have caused all this crap we should be sending a message out to other big countries we are open for business soon, and show the confidence not disdain of it being on a knife edge of not happening a proper Brexit saving more money in the WTO where the EU put tariffs on us.......

This is nonsense Joe as countries don't do business, and corporations know or they don't know. For instance, I was at the launch yesterday of a research partnership between Huawei and Cambridge University. Huawei know the benefits the UK offers, they don't need the Chinese government to hold their hand. It's a case of making things easier for them rather than harder. That's what is at stake here, and it's perhaps worth noting that the VC of Cambridge was quite adamant that Brexit will make his job harder in terms of attracting the leading minds to his university, conducting collaborative research with peers in Europe, and commercialising that research via corporate partners.
 
This is something, hey.



And brexit can only be done badly so here we are.

A decent journalist would have said, okay Nigel, what does a good Brexit mean? and then not let up until the slippery toad had actually pinned his detailed colours to the mast.

If his campaign actually detailed what Brexit would mean instead of turning it into an anti immigration vote people may be able to accept him questioning how it is being carried out. However, they would have had no chance of winning if the whole thing wasn't about immigration so not really relevant.
 
That isn't what happens Joe (and I've said this an awful lot of times). EU migrants are more likely to have a degree and a job than non-EU migrants. They're typically younger with fewer dependents, and as a result have less demand for public services such as schools and hospitals. I know it sounds counter-intuitive as we have no control over EU migration, but that is what the evidence shows.

As a reasonable man who is surely driven by evidence rather than dogma, are you now willing to change your mind?
Bruce you are looking at skilled work which has hurt our building industry - it is not dogma its a fact Agriculture message oh UK workers wont do the work is a bug myth ever put out by greedy gang master farmers in some areas....
 
And brexit can only be done badly so here we are.



If his campaign actually detailed what Brexit would mean instead of turning it into an anti immigration vote people may be able to accept him questioning how it is being carried out. However, they would have had no chance of winning if the whole thing wasn't about immigration so not really relevant.
It is not anti immigration its controlled immigration we need immigration as we have a skill shortage now controlling it and training vocational skills in the future is they way forward when we leave,,,,,
to reduce the immigration and balance it....
ATM I agree we do have a big skill shortage and immigration at most levels is necessary many past governments have gone to far down the academic training way.....
 
Bruce you are looking at skilled work which has hurt our building industry - it is not dogma its a fact Agriculture message oh UK workers wont do the work is a bug myth ever put out by greedy gang master farmers in some areas....

This is aggregated data across all EU and non-EU migrants Joe. This is officially recognised data from the Migration Observatory at Oxford University. I'm getting a sense however that you're not willing to budge regardless of the evidence presented to you.
 
This is aggregated data across all EU and non-EU migrants Joe. This is officially recognised data from the Migration Observatory at Oxford University. I'm getting a sense however that you're not willing to budge regardless of the evidence presented to you.
Evidence and facts don’t matter Bruce, neither does rational dissection of his misguided view of the actual reality.

He ‘believes’ that’s enough, it’s an ideology, literally. The more facts that are presented and then dismissed, the more cult like it appears.

Redwoods comments today about Airbus sums it up, a complete refusal to accept reality, and a ‘belief’ that there’s Unicorns around the next bend. It’s absoltely bonkers, the post truth era indeed.
 
This is aggregated data across all EU and non-EU migrants Joe. This is officially recognised data from the Migration Observatory at Oxford University. I'm getting a sense however that you're not willing to budge regardless of the evidence presented to you.
That's because Bruce you look at a set of figures that suit your argument - it is impossible for you to consider the impact on basic services the UK provides free of charge or on a council tax basis....of overpopulated areas in the UK some areas London is the only multicultural city that seems okish with it....
the influx of a city like Hull coming every year on services is not sustainable Bruce it's just common sense....
I know it's beneficial for the UK in some areas of employment , not in low paid - before brexit Bruce - a certain PM stated british jobs for working people - no not Nigel Farage - = Labours Gordon Brown.....
also Corbyn banged on about low paid jobs being abused by gang masters, and jobs being advertised in the EU first ...
He's gone quiet now over this.....
 
That's because Bruce you look at a set of figures that suit your argument - it is impossible for you to consider the impact on basic services the UK provides free of charge or on a council tax basis....of overpopulated areas in the UK some areas London is the only multicultural city that seems okish with it....
the influx of a city like Hull coming every year on services is not sustainable Bruce it's just common sense....
I know it's beneficial for the UK in some areas of employment , not in low paid - before brexit Bruce - a certain PM stated british jobs for working people - no not Nigel Farage - = Labours Gordon Brown.....
also Corbyn banged on about low paid jobs being abused by gang masters, and jobs being advertised in the EU first ...
He's gone quiet now over this.....
Non EU migration resulted in an influx larger than the population of Hull in 2017 though, the one we have full control over, as opposed to the EU migration that we can’t be arsed controlling....

So using your own logic we need to wind that right back as well as you think it’s unsustainable.
 
From the EU Observer......

A special summit designed to help Germany deal with immigration has turned into a car crash before it began.
The draft summit declaration has gone in the bin because Italy said no to keeping migrants out of Germany.

One of the principal guests, France, has called two of the others, Austria and Italy, "lepers".

Four other EU states, who were not invited, have rubbished the summit as a club of "migrant-loving friends".

The top echelons of the European Commission have also angered those in the EU Council after calling the meeting over their heads.

That is the backdrop for a summit of nine EU leaders at 2PM on Sunday in Brussels and for a subsequent talks by all 28 EU leaders in the city on Thursday.

German pressure
Sunday's event was called by commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker and German leader Angela Merkel to help her deal with her hawkish interior minister.
Juncker's people drafted a declaration saying the EU would halt "secondary movements" - a jargon term for asylum seekers who arrive in Italy or Greece, then move on to Germany and other wealthier countries.
It came after Merkel's minister, Horst Seehofer, threatened to bring down her coalition unless she took a hard line on the issue.

But the declaration was abandoned when Italy said no, exposing the depth of EU division.

"The [German] chancellor clarified that there had been a 'misunderstanding'. The draft text released yesterday [Wednesday] will be shelved," Italian prime minister, Giuseppe Conte, said on Thursday.
He said he would come on Sunday, but the populist government he represented hardened its line still further.
It refused to take in a boat of 226 migrants, called the Lifeline, on Thursday.
They had been rescued by a German charity, but Italy added that it might impound such NGO-run boats in future.
This came after it earlier refused to take in another boat, the Aquarius, leaving people stranded at sea for days.

EU 'lepers'
Italy's far-right interior minister, Matteo Salvini, also pledged to target Roma for expulsion, prompting comparisons with the country's fascist past.
That kind of politics amounted to "leprosy", French leader Emmanuel Macron said on Thursday.
"You can see them [populists] rise a bit like a leprosy all across Europe, in countries where we thought it would be impossible to see them again," he said.
"They're saying the worst things, and we're getting used to it," he said.
He did not name Italy, Austria, which is co-led by the far-right, or Hungary and Poland, which are also led by xenophobic eurosceptics, but Rome knew what he meant.

Macron was "offensive", Italy's deputy prime minister, Luigi Di Maio, said.

The Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, and Slovakia, also cried foul after leaders met in Budapest.
Sunday's summit was "unacceptable", Polish prime minister Matuesz Morawiecki said.
"Let's just say we don't belong to this migrant-loving group of friends and neither do we want to partake," he said.
Hungary's Viktor Orban highlighted the Bavarian context of Sunday's talks, which made it look as if Merkel's comfort was more important to Juncker than European unity.
"We understand there are domestic political difficulties in some countries, but that cannot lead to pan-European haste," Orban said.

Juncker vs. Tusk
Orban added that EU summits ought to be called at the level of 28 by the EU Council, under normal procedure, not in novel formats on Merkel's whim.
The remarks showed to what extent national divisions have bled into EU institutions.
EU Council head Donald Tusk had declined Merkel's mini-summit idea and his officials had leaked the EU-28 summit draft declaration to press.
But Juncker snubbed Tusk by agreeing to do it instead and the commission then leaked its EU-9 declaration, pushing Tusk's text out of view.
That sets the scene for a prickly press conference when the two men take the podium together, as usual, after next week's summit.
But even if they put aside their egos, they might have little good news to announce.
Hungary, Poland and the other two central European countries remain opposed to EU asylum reform to take the heat off Greece and Italy.

Tunisia says no
Another EU commission idea, to create migrant holdings pens in African states, such as Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, or Niger also seems set to fall on its face.
"It [still] has to be discussed with these countries," EU migration commissioner Dimitris Avramopoulos said on Thursday.
Tunisia already had answer, however.
"We have neither the capacity nor the means to organise these detention centres," Tunisia's ambassador to the EU, Tahar Cherif, said.
"The proposal was put to the head of our government a few months ago during a visit to Germany, it was also asked by Italy, and the answer is clear: No," he said.

And some of you still want to belong to this rag bag organisation.......
 
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