Current Affairs EU In or Out

[abelard]

May the Brexit be as flaccid as the Brexiters!

 

[Old Blue 2]

1. Proper chicken and egg this - I can only say that whenever I tend to dip into this thread (rarely), you’re usually in here ranting and raving.

2. Seriously - how can you compare something to a Nazi state and then later say that the comparison excludes atrocities, fascist ideology, suppression and ideology?

3. I think you should concede that it’s a pretty poor comparison.

1. Not worth saying anything about this. Carry on with the bullshit.

2. In case it did not sink in first time (and I don't think it did), this is my point: "...The EU, in case you hadn't noticed, is moving towards a totally centralised State, with Germany as its core both geographically (a fact), financially (a fact, it has been Merkel calling the tune regarding the Euro and what happens around the currency), militarily (a central European army), politically (we have to toe the line as to what the EU tells us to do) and legally..." Now, if you can't see the parallels...

3. No it's not a poor comparison. Look at '2' above, and see the similarities in approach.

But then, you are never going to agree with me on anything, simply because I voted a different way to you on 23 June 2016. Sad stance, really...

 

[tsubaki]

Happy birthday to the 22 Tory rebels who were born yesterday.

 

[edge]

May the Brexit be as flaccid as the Brexiters!

government just won the vote on the lords amendment 19, meaning that Parliament hasn't got a vote in the event of a NO deal.

 

[roydo]

.The EU, in case you hadn't noticed, is moving towards a totally centralised State, with Germany as its core both geographically (a fact), financially (a fact, it has been Merkel calling the tune regarding the Euro and what happens around the currency), militarily (a central European army), politically (we have to toe the line as to what the EU tells us to do) and legally..." Now, if you can't see the parallels...

1. We are not in the Euro.

2. We dont toe the line. We have vetos on pretty much anything OUR politicians choose to use them on.

And parallels with what?

Agree its a creeping towards a United States of Europe type thing, but until they properly sort the Euro, a'la USA did with the $ and the Fed centuries ago, it wont ever work anyrate.

 

[Joey66]

You are chatting absolute wham here.

MPs are only worth a damn if they vote honestly based on what they believe - not what their constituents belief was two years ago, nor what it is now, nor how the Party tells them to vote, nor how the people who fund them want them to vote, nor how the papers tell them / threaten them into voting. For our democracy to work they have to assess each proposal honestly - that for years many of them have not done so is why our country is in the mess that it is in.

I share very few political opinions with Dr Phillip Lee, but if he genuinely believes these negotations have been a disaster (and they have been) and will defy the Government whip to vote accordingly then good luck to him*.

* edit - plus of course if any MP genuinely thinks that Parliament having a meaningful vote at the end of the deal is a bad thing then they are incompetent

Your talking wham your MP represents his or her constituency end of.....

 

[roydo]

Your talking wham your MP represents his or her constituency end of.....

lol.

 

[Joey66]

lol.

We are leavinglol

 

[abelard]

government just won the vote on the lords amendment 19, meaning that Parliament hasn't got a vote in the event of a NO deal.

I know. It is still uncertain (to me, anyhow) how it will all play out. But I think it is now perhaps a little more likely that we end up with a Brexit which is mostly pointless, and clearly worse than what we have now, rather than the apocalyptic sort.

 

[tsubaki]

Your talking wham your MP represents his or her constituency end of.....

I think you need to study what this word means.

 

[roydo]

We are leavinglol

Going well.

 

[edge]

I know. It is still uncertain (to me, anyhow) how it will all play out. But I think it is now perhaps a little more likely that we end up with a Brexit which is mostly pointless, and clearly worse than what we have now, rather than the apocalyptic sort.

I have said from day one we will end up with something that neither side really wants, even if we had a clear idea, which we haven't of what we want out of any deal , we still after get it accepted by the EU member states.
I have a feeling it will end up in a smudge as both sides run out of time and cobble together something just to say they have some type of deal in place.

 

[joey_macmo]

government just won the vote on the lords amendment 19, meaning that Parliament hasn't got a vote in the event of a NO deal.

The devil is in the detail

 

[Old Blue 2]

1. We are not in the Euro.

2. We dont toe the line. We have vetos on pretty much anything OUR politicians choose to use them on.

And parallels with what?

Agree its a creeping towards a United States of Europe type thing, but until they properly sort the Euro, a'la USA did with the $ and the Fed centuries ago, it wont ever work anyrate.

That's my point, roydo. Things are moving imperceptably towards a totally integrated European state, encompassing everything, and the one that will be calling the tune is the most powerful state within it: Germany.

 

[Ruairi77]

That's my point, roydo. Things are moving imperceptably towards a totally integrated European state, encompassing everything, and the one that will be calling the tune is the most powerful state within it: Germany.

The UK was not a member of Schengen
The UK was not a member of the Eurozone or EMU
The UK had a flexible opt-out from justice, home affairs, freedom and security measures and could choose to participate in them on a case-by-case basis
The UK had a flexible opt-out of the charter of fundamental rights.

In order for Europe to move towards a super state, another treaty would have to pass that stripped guarantees to Ireland on self determination with regards to defense and taxation. These changes would be constitutional and therefore subject to a referendum, a referendum that would fail (as it did before). There are a number of hoops the likes of Denmark and Sweden would have to jump through too.

The workings of the EU have not changed hugely since the implementation of the Lisbon treaty and is nowhere near a super state, to think otherwise is paranoia.

The UK had a good deal and had the potential to negotiate an even better one. But, instead, you decided to take the ball and go home.