Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Old Blue 2]

you voted alongside every voting racist in the country.

I also voted for Tony Blair's party in 1997. I didn't know he would become a liar and war criminal. Does that that, however, align me with what Blair believed (or didn't but lied) and ultimately did (threw his weight behind an attack on Iraq based on known lies in concert with the USA), causing the deaths of many thousands of civilians, and the pointless death of British servicemen which destroyed their individual familes. Am I tarred with the same brush.

So tell me, how many racists voted Remain? You can't do that, because you don't know.

So carry on making spurious and denigrating remarks to satisfy your climb up to your own moral high ground.

Let me guess. You voted... Remain. Status Quo for you mate. No change, no change, no change. And some on here have accused the older generation of wanting to stay in their comfort zone and not be disturbed. The biggest shysters THAT can levelled at are the younger generations who have never known life outside the Common Market/EU and are fearful of change. THEY are the ones who want their comfort blanket and still suck their thumbs!

Ignorant attitudes like this make me sick!: you voted alongside every voting racist in the country.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

‘Our analysis suggests that the idea that the referendum was a lightning rod for a rising ‘anti-politics’ tide is wide of the mark. People’s level of trust in government at most played only a minor role in influencing how they voted. Instead, the result reflected the concerns of
older, more ‘authoritarian’ or social conservative voters who were particularly worried about immigration. Any suggestion that immigration was not at the heart of this vote runs counter to what we have found.’

http://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-...brexit-and-immigration-a-country-divided.aspx

Amongst about about a hundred thousand other studies all reaching the same conclusion (probably paid for by Soros mind). You can state your case any way you like but the uncomfortable truth is this: you voted alongside every voting racist in the country.

Anecdotally that matches my experience, I know plenty of people who some would call racists through ignorance who voted leave, yet to find racist remainer also cannot find a far right political party from the UK that campaigned and voted remain. The evidences is overwhelming in a strong racist movement in the leave vote. However, there is legitimacy in the concers of freedom of movement and people just being economic widgets for business wage abuse for profit.
The trouble with parts of leave it courted the nationalistic dogs to get them across the winning line, in doing so let them off the leash (Legitimised).

 

[roydo]

At the risk of saying this for the first time... it ws a COMPARISON. Read this:

Nowhere does it say that the figure should be used in that way. It says the amount is enough to build etc.. Ergo, a comparison. Read it properly, everyone!

And the figure was £350m.

Yawn.

We wernt discussing the validity of the thing, more the triggers that may have pushed folk one way or another to vote. The fact that after all this time, that bus is still discussed/disputed suggests it made a mark on some folk.

 

[hullefc]

At the risk of saying this for the first time... it ws a COMPARISON. Read this:

Nowhere does it say that the figure should be used in that way. It says the amount is enough to build etc.. Ergo, a comparison. Read it properly, everyone!

And the figure was £350m.

But that wasn't on the side of the bus. The one that travelled the country telling people,

Getty


Or this. Not a comparison or equivalent. But ' the EU takes £350 million a week so let's give our NHS it'.

Vote Leave‏Verified account @vote_leave
We need to #VoteLeave and spend the £350 million Brussels takes each week on our priorities, like the NHS.

1:03 am - 25 Apr 2016




The message was clear 'leave the EU and the money taken by them -£350 million per week -will be given to the NHS'.

The unfortunate thing for Johnson and his gang is that the UK doesn't send £350 million per week and no where near that figure. The propaganda was based on a lie. as was this.

Johnson and his gang got what they wanted and are making a right hash of it. The £350 million promised per week has led to this.

 

[hullefc]

MPs call for police to investigate links to Russia

This will probably run and run by some, in the hope that the leave result will be deemed null and void by the courts, and maybe a re-run. Thereby saving the Tories the hostility when they refuse to leave the customs union and the single market.

Seems that Cambridge Analytica's 'involvement' has been superseded by the Russian 'connection'.

 

[peteblue]

I’ve got loads of anecdotal evidence of Leave voters regretting their decision, however you wouldn’t be interested.

The last major survey on the subject I can remember seeing was last year, and it showed that 14% of Leave voters either regretted their decision or doubted they made the right choice. By my maths that’s nearly double the leave majority......

In addition the most recent YouGov survey shows that there’s now a majority who think we made the wrong choice in June 2016.

Please. All of the polls before the referendum showed a convincing Remain vote. Just tell me one, a single one person in the public eye who voted Leave and now says they would vote Remain.....

 

[Old Blue 2]

Yawn.

We wernt discussing the validity of the thing, more the triggers that may have pushed folk one way or another to vote. The fact that after all this time, that bus is still discussed/disputed suggests it made a mark on some folk.

Sorry roydo, this is what you posted: "...the now notorious "£340m PW to the NHS" bus carried more sway..."

I simply corrected it, and pointed out what it really was (comparison).

The mark it makes is that some people STILL can't grasp the difference between a comparison and a supposed actual commitment to something (which a campaign had no clout do do anyway!).

 

[Old Blue 2]

But that wasn't on the side of the bus. The one that travelled the country telling people,

Getty


Or this. Not a comparison or equivalent. But ' the EU takes £350 million a week so let's give our NHS it'.

Vote Leave‏Verified account @vote_leave
We need to #VoteLeave and spend the £350 million Brussels takes each week on our priorities, like the NHS.

1:03 am - 25 Apr 2016




The message was clear 'leave the EU and the money taken by them -£350 million per week -will be given to the NHS'.

The unfortunate thing for Johnson and his gang is that the UK doesn't send £350 million per week and no where near that figure. The propaganda was based on a lie. as was this.

Johnson and his gang got what they wanted and are making a right hash of it. The £350 million promised per week has led to this.

As I have posted many times before, and people like you ignore it, the sum is a comparison. 'Let's give it' carries no weight whatsoever. It simply suggests that the money we presently give to the EU can be used in a different direction, a direction that would benefit the whole country. Is that so bad? If you think it is, then shame on you, and all of a similar mind...

 

[hullefc]

As I have posted many times before, and people like you ignore it, the sum is a comparison. 'Let's give it' carries no weight whatsoever. It simply suggests that the money we presently give to the EU can be used in a different direction, a direction that would benefit the whole country. Is that so bad? If you think it is, then shame on you, and all of a similar mind...

'Let's give it'. What is 'it'? It was written on the side of the bus and in leaflets and on billboards - £350 million per week to the NHS. What were they going to 'give'? They stated it clearly, £350 million per week to the NHS. 'It simply suggests that the money we presently give to the EU'? But the 'money we presently give' wasn't/isn't the £350 million per week that was written on the side of the bus etc.. It is very much smaller.

'The sum is a comparison'. A comparison to what? It can't be to the £350 million per week as the UK doesn't/didn't 'give' the EU that sum every week or anywhere near that comparative figure.

The £350 million per week was for propaganda purposes and now they have been found out and don't want to talk about it.

As far as spending the money in a 'different direction' I completely agree. But the Tories have promised farmers the rich vein of subsidies that are in place at present. They are not going to build a million council houses to relieve the housing crisis but 'give it' to some of the same people who got it as before. Will the Tories continue with the 'fund for poorer areas'? I doubt it. The 'fund for poorer areas' the EU projects have transformed many areas neglected by the Tories in the 1980s and the 1990s. The Tories are not going to use the 'savings' to 'benefit of the whole country' but will use it for the benefit of some but not to the poor - working and not working, the vulnerable, those with a disability, sick etc and certainly not to the NHS. The likes of Johnson, Gove, Duncan Smith, Rees Mogg remain silent on future NHS funding. Otherwise they would be jumping up and down shooting 'when we leave the EU we can spend the savings - £350 million per week - on the NHS'. But they don't because they have been found out and want it buried.

If you mean spending the money 'saved' in a 'different direction' as an elected Corbyn Labour party promised, then that would be a different kettle of fish. As that may come into conflict with German and French firms who would not be too happy that their 'investment opportunities' would be curtailed. Which can explain why the EU, some in the Tory party and certain elements in the Labour party want to tie the UK to the single market. So that the Labour party can't re-nationalise the railways, power sector, water etc., as well as setting up na national investment bank. That's when the 'taking back control' mantra would really mean something, along with helping the poor, vulnerable, disabled, weak etc., rather than the shallow and hollow soundbite that was used and is still used by some of those wanting to 'leave the EU'. That is why Corbyn et al in the Labour party are talking about some form of 'custom union access and single market alignment' as long as it doesn't go against what they say they plan to do.

There is not much gung-ho confidence amongst Johnson and his gang about what lies ahead, and the backtracking on leaving the customs union, the single market and the ECJ is all to evident. The Tories have tried to use the EU referendum, Article 50 and the 'negotiations' for political gain and its failed miserably. It is becoming clearer and clearer that the UK will be staying in the EU, for the 'foreseeable future', as the 'border on the island of Ireland' issue has scuppered any 'hope' they had of leaving. That is unless they tear it up.

Added to that, Trump's more open trade war has focused minds in the City, the CBI, IoD, the Engineering federation, the motor sector and the Tory party who are more openly campaigning to stay in the EU. Hence the shift in the Tories, even by some of those 'ardent' Brexiters. Some in the Labour party and the Tories may use the 'Aaron Banks and the Russian connection' to either get the result declared null and void in the courts or have another referendum. There are political choppy water ahead.

 

[edge]

Please. All of the polls before the referendum showed a convincing Remain vote. Just tell me one, a single one person in the public eye who voted Leave and now says they would vote Remain.....

The polls since leaving are in that link I posted above Pete, hardly any movement and even those are a bit off in one or two cases they have included people who were in the don't know camp, not leave at the time of the vote.
Most leave voters I know are if anything hardening there stance.

 

[peteblue]

'Let's give it'. What is 'it'? It was written on the side of the bus and in leaflets and on billboards - £350 million per week to the NHS. What were they going to 'give'? They stated it clearly, £350 million per week to the NHS. 'It simply suggests that the money we presently give to the EU'? But the 'money we presently give' wasn't/isn't the £350 million per week that was written on the side of the bus etc.. It is very much smaller.

'The sum is a comparison'. A comparison to what? It can't be to the £350 million per week as the UK doesn't/didn't 'give' the EU that sum every week or anywhere near that comparative figure.

The £350 million per week was for propaganda purposes and now they have been found out and don't want to talk about it.

As far as spending the money in a 'different direction' I completely agree. But the Tories have promised farmers the rich vein of subsidies that are in place at present. They are not going to build a million council houses to relieve the housing crisis but 'give it' to some of the same people who got it as before. Will the Tories continue with the 'fund for poorer areas'? I doubt it. The 'fund for poorer areas' the EU projects have transformed many areas neglected by the Tories in the 1980s and the 1990s. The Tories are not going to use the 'savings' to 'benefit of the whole country' but will use it for the benefit of some but not to the poor - working and not working, the vulnerable, those with a disability, sick etc and certainly not to the NHS. The likes of Johnson, Gove, Duncan Smith, Rees Mogg remain silent on future NHS funding. Otherwise they would be jumping up and down shooting 'when we leave the EU we can spend the savings - £350 million per week - on the NHS'. But they don't because they have been found out and want it buried.

If you mean spending the money 'saved' in a 'different direction' as an elected Corbyn Labour party promised, then that would be a different kettle of fish. As that may come into conflict with German and French firms who would not be too happy that their 'investment opportunities' would be curtailed. Which can explain why the EU, some in the Tory party and certain elements in the Labour party want to tie the UK to the single market. So that the Labour party can't re-nationalise the railways, power sector, water etc., as well as setting up na national investment bank. That's when the 'taking back control' mantra would really mean something, along with helping the poor, vulnerable, disabled, weak etc., rather than the shallow and hollow soundbite that was used and is still used by some of those wanting to 'leave the EU'. That is why Corbyn et al in the Labour party are talking about some form of 'custom union access and single market alignment' as long as it doesn't go against what they say they plan to do.

There is not much gung-ho confidence amongst Johnson and his gang about what lies ahead, and the backtracking on leaving the customs union, the single market and the ECJ is all to evident. The Tories have tried to use the EU referendum, Article 50 and the 'negotiations' for political gain and its failed miserably. It is becoming clearer and clearer that the UK will be staying in the EU, for the 'foreseeable future', as the 'border on the island of Ireland' issue has scuppered any 'hope' they had of leaving. That is unless they tear it up.

Added to that, Trump's more open trade war has focused minds in the City, the CBI, IoD, the Engineering federation, the motor sector and the Tory party who are more openly campaigning to stay in the EU. Hence the shift in the Tories, even by some of those 'ardent' Brexiters. Some in the Labour party and the Tories may use the 'Aaron Banks and the Russian connection' to either get the result declared null and void in the courts or have another referendum. There are political choppy water ahead.

So are you saying that Russia interfered with a U.K. vote and swayed the result to Leave......

 

[Joey66]

But that wasn't on the side of the bus. The one that travelled the country telling people,

Getty


Or this. Not a comparison or equivalent. But ' the EU takes £350 million a week so let's give our NHS it'.

Vote Leave‏Verified account @vote_leave
We need to #VoteLeave and spend the £350 million Brussels takes each week on our priorities, like the NHS.

1:03 am - 25 Apr 2016




The message was clear 'leave the EU and the money taken by them -£350 million per week -will be given to the NHS'.

The unfortunate thing for Johnson and his gang is that the UK doesn't send £350 million per week and no where near that figure. The propaganda was based on a lie. as was this.

Johnson and his gang got what they wanted and are making a right hash of it. The £350 million promised per week has led to this.

Simple way around that is to train UK nurses on the wards cutting out the university degree as only an option , and not a necessity to become a qualified nurse training on the ward and day release to get vocational nursing qualifications should be optional to swell the numbers needed it happened before quite successfully in the past!
Many expeericed nurses working on the wards , clinics now never needed a degree, there should be options to swell the ranks some people are not academic, but are much better practically!
They could within 6-12 months be of a valuable idea to increase the numbers needed!

 

[peteblue]

The polls since leaving are in that link I posted above Pete, hardly any movement and even those are a bit off in one or two cases they have included people who were in the don't know camp, not leave at the time of the vote.
Most leave voters I know are if anything hardening there stance.

This was my point really. The Remainers keep telling us that we’ve all changed our minds, while in reality they are just trying to convince themselves that they will get a second vote. I’ve never known a more cry-baby reaction from an electorate. It is embarrassing..........

 

[Old Blue 2]

SOme people STILL don't understand what 'comparison' means.

In the context of this thread, it means:
An equivalent cost to have somethig done.

Time for another son, methinks. The original song, 'It's a game', before it was murdered by a bunch of young Scots...

 

[Joey66]

MPs call for police to investigate links to Russia

This will probably run and run by some, in the hope that the leave result will be deemed null and void by the courts, and maybe a re-run. Thereby saving the Tories the hostility when they refuse to leave the customs union and the single market.

Seems that Cambridge Analytica's 'involvement' has been superseded by the Russian 'connection'.

It's related to the then Alan Banks who donated funds to UKIP leave campaign- he went to Russia no mention he is married to a Russian , anyway in front of the select committee tomorrow.....