Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

Granted, I don't know the full story because I wasn't there but it seems that UKIP had huge support and they were full of crap and since got wiped out. This would suggest there was far more disinformation coming from the leave side.
I think you're right that leaving is a fact, unfortunately nobody except the a few fringe torys seem to have the appetite needed to leave properly so the UK will be stuck in a quagmire of politicians from all sides trying to save their political skins. This stagnation and confusion will harm the economy far more than leaving or staying.

UKIP got wiped out because their job was done, we voted Leave. It had nothing to do with disinformation. You are drawing conclusions based on false premises........

 

[edge]

Granted, I don't know the full story because I wasn't there but it seems that UKIP had huge support and they were full of crap and since got wiped out. This would suggest there was far more disinformation coming from the leave side.
I think you're right that leaving is a fact, unfortunately nobody except the a few fringe torys seem to have the appetite needed to leave properly so the UK will be stuck in a quagmire of politicians from all sides trying to save their political skins. This stagnation and confusion will harm the economy far more than leaving or staying.

looks like the UKIP vote has swung behind the Tories now in the local elections, i wouldn't ever vote for them anyway , plenty of others were against the EU like my trade Union the RMT but that gets forgotten as all leave voter as seen as either swivel eyed right wingers or trailer trash white scum.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

bit of a sweeping statement that Bruce, even if they cant explain the ins and outs of the EU they can vote on the environment that they live and work in, a lot of people all over Europe not just the UK are saying that the EU isnt working for them.eastern states , Greece . Italy ect are they all clueless?

Unfortunately that's what the best evidence we have tells us. I can't speak for Greece and Italy, but I have a degree of insight into how things are unfolding in the Visegrad at the moment, and if we think the level of rubbish printed in the press here is bad, they take things to a whole other level. Read/listen to their reporting of the various terrorist incidences in Britain, for instance, and it's like Fox News on steroids. The situation there is similar to here, in that those in Prague, Budapest, Warsaw etc. have seen through it, but those in the countryside are swallowing it hook, line and sinker.

It's one thing to publish/broadcast something you believe 100% to be correct, only for it to turn out not to be, but quite another to wilfully publish/broadcast things you know full well are wrong. It's scandalous.

 

[Gardocki]

1) On the contrary, the reason more voted out than to stay in was precisely because they do understand what the EU does, how it operates, and certainly know how it does not benefit them. To suggest for example that I was not informed is an insult.

2) The usual claptrap for a disenchanted Remain voter. The only phrase you have not used is 'Little Englander'...

3) The charlatans are in the EU mate. The economists got it totally wrong regarding post-Brexit (reference Carney, top man at the Bank of England and his pronouncements - proven to be an utter clown). WHat has the legal community shown post 23 June? WHat has the Universities shown post-23 June? Ditto for the medical community, business groups, manufacturing, agriculture. WHat have all these organisations trumpeted that has scared the crap out of the UK post-23 June? Throwaway remarks are the easiest things to post on the interent. they are also the hardest for you to justify...

The fact is, the economy HAS NOT tanked, unemployment HAS NOT rocketed, etc..

But hey, let's stay in a POLITICAL organisation when we originally voted to joined a trading organisation...

The economy hasn’t tanked yet, but growth has slowed dramatically compared to most of Europe since the vote - and the U.K. is still in the EU.

2 years later and nobody knows their terms on which the UK will leave because the politicians themselves don’t have a clue. They are trying to satisfy populists who say there’s an easy solution to leave the EU after 40 years of integration, knowing full well there isn’t. A hard Brexit would probably tank the economy though, but I doubt very much that it will happen. It will be fun watching the chickens come home to roost when the realisation kicks in.

You’re right about people voting because they didn’t see the EU as beneficial. That doesn’t mean the EU isn’t beneficial though. British politicians have played a blinder in convincing much of population that their problems are the fault of the EU and not Westminster.

 

[Ruairi77]

UKIP got wiped out because their job was done, we voted Leave. It had nothing to do with disinformation. You are drawing conclusions based on false premises........

as a political party, would their job not be to use the leave result to build a platform in order to realize the referendum result? or did people not quite take to the stench of right wing nationalism?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The economy hasn’t tanked yet, but growth has slowed dramatically compared to most of Europe since the vote - and the U.K. is still in the EU.

2 years later and nobody knows their terms on which the UK will leave because the politicians themselves don’t have a clue. They are trying to satisfy populists who say there’s an easy solution to leave the EU after 40 years of integration, knowing full well there isn’t. A hard Brexit would probably tank the economy though, but I doubt very much that it will happen. It will be fun watching the chickens come home to roost when the realisation kicks in.

You’re right about people voting because they didn’t see the EU as beneficial. That doesn’t mean the EU isn’t beneficial though. British politicians have played a blinder in convincing much of population that their problems are the fault of the EU and not Westminster.

Perhaps the biggest indicator is the migration statistics. Since the vote to leave, net migration to the country has plummeted as people vote on our prospects with their feet. Interestingly, whereas prior to the vote, the figures were roughly 50/50 in terms of EU/non-EU migrants, now the figure is 30%/70% in favour of non-EU migrants (the ones we can control don't forget).

 

[edge]

Unfortunately that's what the best evidence we have tells us. I can't speak for Greece and Italy, but I have a degree of insight into how things are unfolding in the Visegrad at the moment, and if we think the level of rubbish printed in the press here is bad, they take things to a whole other level. Read/listen to their reporting of the various terrorist incidences in Britain, for instance, and it's like Fox News on steroids. The situation there is similar to here, in that those in Prague, Budapest, Warsaw etc. have seen through it, but those in the countryside are swallowing it hook, line and sinker.

It's one thing to publish/broadcast something you believe 100% to be correct, only for it to turn out not to be, but quite another to wilfully publish/broadcast things you know full well are wrong. It's scandalous.

sadly the world we live in Bruce think we are heading into a very turbulent waters, people are getting fed up with the way the world is going were the balance sheet means more than the person, and this gives them an out let for the anger, the EU seems either not to see this or dosnt care to acknowledge its happening and will not change itself to adapt, in the long run it we collapses because it is to slow to recognise this.

 

[Old Blue 2]

The economy hasn’t tanked yet, but growth has slowed dramatically compared to most of Europe since the vote - and the U.K. is still in the EU.

2 years later and nobody knows their terms on which the UK will leave because the politicians themselves don’t have a clue. They are trying to satisfy populists who say there’s an easy solution to leave the EU after 40 years of integration, knowing full well there isn’t. A hard Brexit would probably tank the economy though, but I doubt very much that it will happen. It will be fun watching the chickens come home to roost when the realisation kicks in.

You’re right about people voting because they didn’t see the EU as beneficial. That doesn’t mean the EU isn’t beneficial though. British politicians have played a blinder in convincing much of population that their problems are the fault of the EU and not Westminster.

'Growth' or whatever else you wish to call it, historically goes up and down. As does employment.

We voted in to a trading agreement, not a political union (yawn, yawn, for the 1,000th time).

I just LOVE your sweeping last statement. Is that from the Bruce bank of throwaway sentences to lob in now and again...!

 

[Old Blue 2]

Time for a song, methinks. Get me in the right mood for the next gig at one of our favourite venues.

 

[peteblue]

as a political party, would their job not be to use the leave result to build a platform in order to realize the referendum result? or did people not quite take to the stench of right wing nationalism?

No. Once the vote was Leave they had no further role. Even during the actual vote they were on the periphery.....

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

'Growth' or whatever else you wish to call it, historically goes up and down. As does employment.

We voted in to a trading agreement, not a political union (yawn, yawn, for the 1,000th time).

I just LOVE your sweeping last statement. Is that from the Bruce bank of throwaway sentences to lob in now and again...!

Merely pure coincidence that the U.K’s growth has slipped to amongst the worst in the developed world including virtually the entire EU ,since June 23rd 2016. Just one of those cycles or something....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

sadly the world we live in Bruce think we are heading into a very turbulent waters, people are getting fed up with the way the world is going were the balance sheet means more than the person, and this gives them an out let for the anger, the EU seems either not to see this or dosnt care to acknowledge its happening and will not change itself to adapt, in the long run it we collapses because it is to slow to recognise this.

Aye, I don't think there is much doubt that the mainstream political establishment, if you like, have dropped the ball and failed to understand a growing disenchantment with how things are, and people around the world have exerted the power they have to try and change things. I don't think there are many, even among the establishment, who will deny that.

Where I, and I think many others also, look on with sadness is that the disenfranchised have been taken for a ride by a bunch of charlatans. I don't believe for one minute that Brexit, Trump, Syriza et al will help those who most cried out for change. They all made grand promises that they could fix the ills they saw in society because the only thing stopping it was the establishment. It was absurdly simplistic and hit the rocks of reality pretty quickly. That is the positive view on things.

The negative is what we're seeing in the Visegrad and in large parts of the Trump administration as well, where the governments are trying to distort reality to make their failures appear successes. They're distorting reality to create enemies to explain why things are harder to achieve than they promised on the stump. They're employing the kind of tactics most in the west associate more with countries like China or Russia.

Thankfully we haven't gone so far here, but the Johnson comments that were leaked this week only go to highlight how he looks on the Trump situation with a degree of envy, and he'd love to be that 'strong man' himself. Not speaking of you personally, but I find the desire by many leavers to see the EU crumble worrying in this context, as what exactly might fill that void? Would people be happy if the far right AfD continued to progress and actually got into power in Germany? Whilst there are no doubt some leavers who would like just that to happen, I suspect many would not, yet such groups use Brexit and Trump and outcomes like it to push their agenda, and it does make me very nervous.

 

[peteblue]

Merely pure coincidence that the U.K’s growth has slipped to amongst the worst in the developed world including virtually the entire EU ,since June 23rd 2016. Just one of those cycles or something....

Merely pure coincidence the the UK’s employment has grown to its highest and that unemployment is better than virtually the entire EU and the developed world. Just one of those cycles or something.......

 

[peteblue]

Aye, I don't think there is much doubt that the mainstream political establishment, if you like, have dropped the ball and failed to understand a growing disenchantment with how things are, and people around the world have exerted the power they have to try and change things. I don't think there are many, even among the establishment, who will deny that.

Where I, and I think many others also, look on with sadness is that the disenfranchised have been taken for a ride by a bunch of charlatans. I don't believe for one minute that Brexit, Trump, Syriza et al will help those who most cried out for change. They all made grand promises that they could fix the ills they saw in society because the only thing stopping it was the establishment. It was absurdly simplistic and hit the rocks of reality pretty quickly. That is the positive view on things.

The negative is what we're seeing in the Visegrad and in large parts of the Trump administration as well, where the governments are trying to distort reality to make their failures appear successes. They're distorting reality to create enemies to explain why things are harder to achieve than they promised on the stump. They're employing the kind of tactics most in the west associate more with countries like China or Russia.

Thankfully we haven't gone so far here, but the Johnson comments that were leaked this week only go to highlight how he looks on the Trump situation with a degree of envy, and he'd love to be that 'strong man' himself. Not speaking of you personally, but I find the desire by many leavers to see the EU crumble worrying in this context, as what exactly might fill that void? Would people be happy if the far right AfD continued to progress and actually got into power in Germany? Whilst there are no doubt some leavers who would like just that to happen, I suspect many would not, yet such groups use Brexit and Trump and outcomes like it to push their agenda, and it does make me very nervous.

Where have you seen ‘many leavers’ show or demonstrate a desire for the EU to crumble ?......

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Merely pure coincidence the the UK’s employment has grown to its highest and that unemployment is better than virtually the entire EU and the developed world. Just one of those cycles or something.......

But we’re full though......all of these immigrants coming over and taking our jobs...or something

Those figures wouldn’t be manipulated by scores of zero hours contracts, part time work and a plethora of low paid crap would they?