Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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The government in reality hadn't got the heart to do what the people told them to do, never has had from the beginning.
The other parties are the same but are sitting there happy to take pot shots , without actually offering anything themselves other than we want this and that while having the luxury of ever having to negotiate with the EU , who if anybody listened to have said they will not break there core values to suit the UK in a deal, don't blame them for once why should they we are getting off supposedly.
It a mess and will end up in a half arsed effort that will suit neither side, bet they leave the door slightly open to going back at some point in the future, just to keep it in the going on for decades, just what we need.
 
The government in reality hadn't got the heart to do what the people told them to do, never has had from the beginning.
The other parties are the same but are sitting there happy to take pot shots , without actually offering anything themselves other than we want this and that while having the luxury of ever having to negotiate with the EU , who if anybody listened to have said they will not break there core values to suit the UK in a deal, don't blame them for once why should they we are getting off supposedly.
It a mess and will end up in a half arsed effort that will suit neither side, bet they leave the door slightly open to going back at some point in the future, just to keep it in the going on for decades, just what we need.
Obviously I've never been one to quote a Tory in agreement, but I'm sure we can all make an exception in the case of Michael Heseltine, who states one of his proudest moments was being granted the Freedom of Liverpool.

He hits the nail on the head many times over here:

Michael Heseltine described the referendum result to leave the European Union as "the greatest constitutional crisis of modern times" and condemned Leave campaigner Boris Johnson as a coward for pulling out of the Conservative leadership election after winning the referendum, likening him to "a general who has led his troops to the sound of guns, and, at first sight of battle, has left the field." Lord Heseltine queried the way Theresa May as home secretary campaigned to remain in the EU though "within a few weeks" of becoming PM, she insisted "Brexit means Brexit". Heseltine mentioned a speech by Theresa May before the EU referendum, where she urged Britain to "stand tall and lead in Europe". Heseltine said: "I don't know how someone who made that speech can, within a few weeks, say Brexit is Brexit and ask the nation to unite behind it."

Then said this:

In March 2017 he was sacked from a number of advisory roles within government after rebelling over the article 50 legislation in the House of Lords, but insisted he would continue working to avert the “disaster” of Brexit. Heseltine feels the 48% of British voters who voted 'remain' are being ignored. He sees Brexit as a historic loss of power for Britain and feels Britain's interests are in Europe.

He then went on to say recently:

In March 2018 Heseltine was pessimistic over Theresa May's Brexit negotiations, he said, “Why is it that after 18 months since the referendum we have not got any closer with these issues? The answer is simple: because no one has got any answer about how to do it.” He also said the gulf between what May wanted and what the EU was willing to give was not narrowing and may be widening, he added, “While that gap remains industry will continue to make assumptions that will involve moving investment from here to the continent. The downsides are becoming more evident as time passes. We have had a serious devaluation of the currency. We have turned ourselves from the fastest growing to the slowest growing economy in Europe and we have made a complete Horlicks of the Irish border. I am totally with the view of Tony Blair and John Major that this matter has got to go back to parliament and possibly to a referendum or a general election.”

G'wed Mikey lad....
 
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The European Commission has introduced new conditions of entry to its research programme in a bid to broaden international access, and keep the door open to continued UK participation in EU-funded research projects.

The EU executive on Thursday offered new entry rules for wealthy non-EU “third countries” looking to participate in the €94.1 billion Horizon Europe, which will run between 2021 and 2027.

The conditions, which will need to be accepted by member states, open up the possibility for countries beyond Europe, and a group of geographically close countries the EU calls “the neighbourhood”, to gain associate membership to the programme, a status that allows countries to participate in EU research under the same conditions as member states.

EU Research Commissioner Carlos Moedas, presenting the budget proposal for Horizon Europe in Brussels, said the legal text supporting the programme “is done in a way so that we can include UK in the future as a third country. The doors are open for discussion. We didn’t want to be that specific.”

In theory, the rule change would also allow the Commission to limit UK access to parts of the programme and could also limit Swiss access too.

The text proposes to give the EU a right to exclude countries from specific parts of the programme if their involvement would risk undermining the core goal of “driving economic growth in the Union through innovation”.

Until now, associate status granted a country full access to the EU research framework by default. This will not change for countries in the European Economic Area – Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway.

“But we need to consider if it makes sense for certain other countries to be involved in all parts of the programme,” a senior Commission official said. Early drafts of the programme said that third countries “may be associated to the global challenges pillar only, or to the global challenges and open science pillars” of Horizon Europe, but not the ‘open innovation’ pillar (this wording is absent from the final proposal).

With a long track record of science cooperation with the EU, and its location in the middle of Europe, Switzerland almost certainly has nothing to worry about. There’s a strong case for the country to retain full access to the programme, a Commission source said.

A whole host of complicating Brexit factors could make the UK’s path to full membership less straightforward. However, “Proximity matters in innovation,” a Commission official said. Reacting to the new rules, an UK government spokesperson said, “As the prime minister has made clear, we want the option to fully associate with EU research and innovation programmes, involving a suitable level of influence in line with an appropriate financial contribution. We will now carefully consider these draft regulations.”

The question of whether in the case of associate status for a country like Canada it makes sense to invest EU taxpayer money into scaling up a Canadian company via the new European Innovation Council, is left hanging.

However, that is academic for now. Canada, the only third country so far to show serious interest in gaining an associate status, could test out the new conditions by sending Brussels a formal application for membership. If this happened, negotiators for both sides would then sit down to weigh the balance of benefit and cost of full access.

The new conditions are also designed to prevent third countries making financial gains from Horizon Europe, or putting in more money than they take out.

Swiss officials learned last week how they would be affected by the wording of the legal text, but await clarity on how the future membership fee will be calculated. The text suggests applying “a correction” if there is a “significant imbalance” between the grants a country wins and the entry fee a government pays.

The European University Association’s senior policy coordinator, Thomas Jørgensen, said the text formulation offers an “elegant solution that both opens up for negotiation with the UK and at the same time gives a flexible framework for opening the programme to the world, which has been an explicit wish since before Brexit. In that flexibility, there is of course also the possibility to be restrictive, but that is the nature of things.”

One UK government official posted in Brussels welcomed the broadly defined terms in the final proposal. “Vague is good,” he said.
 
The government in reality hadn't got the heart to do what the people told them to do, never has had from the beginning.
The other parties are the same but are sitting there happy to take pot shots , without actually offering anything themselves other than we want this and that while having the luxury of ever having to negotiate with the EU , who if anybody listened to have said they will not break there core values to suit the UK in a deal, don't blame them for once why should they we are getting off supposedly.
It a mess and will end up in a half arsed effort that will suit neither side, bet they leave the door slightly open to going back at some point in the future, just to keep it in the going on for decades, just what we need.

The problem is simple - politicians are elected to do the best for their constituents, yet in this instances are hamstrung by their constituents voting for self harm.

Apart from the loons and incompetents like Johnson, every right minded person knows Brexit is suicidal but politically there's little to no momentum to stop it via common sense.

Yet.
 
Nothing has been agreed. NI have not agreed to anything. Referendums in the ROI are just done until you get the result the EU wants. The ROI would simply die without trade with the U.K. the only nostalgia and nationalism from a bygone era is being promoted by yourself. We in the U.K. don’t give a crap anymore. We just want to get out and trade.........
Trade with who?

Britain is not only leaving the largest and most progressive trading block in the world (involving almost every country that it is geographically suited to trade with), it is leaving trade agreements with 60 countries around the world that the EU has trade agreements with. How many years will it take to negotiate (probably) inferior trade deals with those countries? 20? 30?

The idiocy of this ‘trading with the world’ nonsense is beyond belief. I can’t believe people buy into this rubbish.
 
Trade with who?

Britain is not only leaving the largest and most progressive trading block in the world (involving almost every country that it is geographically suited to trade with), it is leaving trade agreements with 60 countries around the world that the EU has trade agreements with. How many years will it take to negotiate (probably) inferior trade deals with those countries? 20? 30?

The idiocy of this ‘trading with the world’ nonsense is beyond belief. I can’t believe people buy into this rubbish.

And what's more, those countries we don't have direct deals with will be under WTO rules, which most hardline Brexiters feel it will be perfectly adequate to go back to with the EU. Yet another of those mirages that doesn't stand up to scrutiny isn't it?
 
The problem is simple - politicians are elected to do the best for their constituents, yet in this instances are hamstrung by their constituents voting for self harm.

Apart from the loons and incompetents like Johnson, every right minded person knows Brexit is suicidal but politically there's little to no momentum to stop it via common sense.

Yet.
Count me in with the loons then I want out, nothing have changed my view point in that since day one, only thing this lack of direction is doing is making me more sceptical that this government or parliament as a whole will do what the people have told them to do which was leave plain and simple,
Sorry I don't hold the mps in such high regard as they do what's best for there constituents at all times , If they did The UK might be a better place to live.
The stay or go argument was settled long ago it's no use going over it time and again we need to move on.
 
Count me in with the loons then I want out, nothing have changed my view point in that since day one, only thing this lack of direction is doing is making me more sceptical that this government or parliament as a whole will do what the people have told them to do which was leave plain and simple,
Sorry I don't hold the mps in such high regard as they do what's best for there constituents at all times , If they did The UK might be a better place to live.
The stay or go argument was settled long ago it's no use going over it time and again we need to move on.

You must accept that 'leaving' can be done in all manner of ways though, with varying degrees of impact upon the UK, and indeed to varying degrees of support from leave voters. For instance, if we technically leave yet remain abiding by the rules of the EU but with no say in how they're formed, I suspect many leave voters will be upset by that, yet their wishes will have been granted in the sense that we have left the EU.

That's a flagrant example, but you begin to appreciate that whilst the in/out choice was (ridiculously) simplistic, the reality of doing so is anything but.
 
Count me in with the loons then I want out, nothing have changed my view point in that since day one, only thing this lack of direction is doing is making me more sceptical that this government or parliament as a whole will do what the people have told them to do which was leave plain and simple,
Sorry I don't hold the mps in such high regard as they do what's best for there constituents at all times , If they did The UK might be a better place to live.
The stay or go argument was settled long ago it's no use going over it time and again we need to move on.

Indeed. We should have made a swift clean exit. However I would blame Remoaners for the position we are currently in with their constant undermining. When they all go visiting Barnier what do you suspect they talk about ?......
 
Trade with who?

Britain is not only leaving the largest and most progressive trading block in the world (involving almost every country that it is geographically suited to trade with), it is leaving trade agreements with 60 countries around the world that the EU has trade agreements with. How many years will it take to negotiate (probably) inferior trade deals with those countries? 20? 30?

The idiocy of this ‘trading with the world’ nonsense is beyond belief. I can’t believe people buy into this rubbish.

By progressive, you really mean protectionist. By Trading block, you really mean EU superstate........the idiocy of belonging to a group just for trade when that also means joining them politically, militarily and eventually financially is nonsense beyond belief. If that is what you really want, then why not join the USA.......
 
You must accept that 'leaving' can be done in all manner of ways though, with varying degrees of impact upon the UK, and indeed to varying degrees of support from leave voters. For instance, if we technically leave yet remain abiding by the rules of the EU but with no say in how they're formed, I suspect many leave voters will be upset by that, yet their wishes will have been granted in the sense that we have left the EU.

That's a flagrant example, but you begin to appreciate that whilst the in/out choice was (ridiculously) simplistic, the reality of doing so is anything but.
To be honest Bruce, it should be done in a way ,(the negotiations) that reflects the UK people s best interests,
the vote wasn't a landslide so the voters who voted in the opposite way from myself have every right to have there views listened to as well, I may not agree with them but they need to be taken on board.
I feel we have become bogged down in a mix of political in fighting, factions rerunning the vote and being hamstrung by the lords, rather than concentrate on getting a good deal in place,
It's been a mess and showing no signs of not being one at the end of all this..
From the minute Cameron came back with next to nothing from the EU its been panic mode all around, he misjudged it so did the EU and now we are at a point were the government is running around headless, the EU will not have a clue from one day to another what the UK is asking for never mind get a deal in place in time.
 
To be honest Bruce, it should be done in a way ,(the negotiations) that reflects the UK people s best interests,
the vote wasn't a landslide so the voters who voted in the opposite way from myself have every right to have there views listened to as well, I may not agree with them but they need to be taken on board.
I feel we have become bogged down in a mix of political in fighting, factions rerunning the vote and being hamstrung by the lords, rather than concentrate on getting a good deal in place,
It's been a mess and showing no signs of not being one at the end of all this..
From the minute Cameron came back with next to nothing from the EU its been panic mode all around, he misjudged it so did the EU and now we are at a point were the government is running around headless, the EU will not have a clue from one day to another what the UK is asking for never mind get a deal in place in time.

This. Our busybody politicians and ex politicians should have let our negotiating team get on with it, but they have all put their oar in and we are going around in circles.......
 
Count me in with the loons then I want out, nothing have changed my view point in that since day one, only thing this lack of direction is doing is making me more sceptical that this government or parliament as a whole will do what the people have told them to do which was leave plain and simple,
Sorry I don't hold the mps in such high regard as they do what's best for there constituents at all times , If they did The UK might be a better place to live.
The stay or go argument was settled long ago it's no use going over it time and again we need to move on.

That's just it - it wasn't. It was done on the basis of lies and deceit and people are increasingly waking up to how much of a disaster this whole thing is.

"Moving on" is going to be deciding what is in our best interests. That includes binning the whole thing off.
 
Of course the lies and deceit were all from one side (sorry, can't find the colour which represents irony and sarcasm...)
 
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