Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Joey66]

Taxes pay for services here and now, they don't pay for your state pension. Older folk are also far and away the biggest users of the health service (with newborns next). Indeed, estimates suggest 2/5 of all NHS spending is on pensioners, with that expenditure paid for overwhelmingly by the taxes of the working age population.

Your own taxes would have paid for the retirees of your age, not for your own retirement today, that is beholden on the working age people of today to do. Demographically, it's known as the old-age dependency ratio, and as a result of the baby boom generation (of which you are a part), there are significantly fewer working people for each pensioner today than there was in the 60s. Indeed, pensioners make up 28% of the working age population today, versus just 18% in 1960.

The answer to that is to have either:
1) A higher retirement age that's more in keeping with life expectancy
2) A higher birth rate and wait for those children to enter the workforce (whilst still paying for schooling etc.)
3) Import people of working age who will more than likely return to their country of origin before they retire

Or just stop free movement of non Labour!

 

[orly]

Or just stop free movement of non Labour!

@Joey66 have you made a start yet on giving those 30 a piece of your Hard Brexit?

The birth rate is declining as we speak!!!!!!

 

[Joey66]

@Joey66 have you made a start yet on giving those 30 a piece of your Hard Brexit?

The birth rate is declining as we speak!!!!!!

Got two grown up kids that's enough - ones in Edinburgh snowed in, and it's just started snowing here!
My son was sent to Skipton yesterday got in at 8-45 pm!

 

[orly]

Got two grown up kids that's enough - ones in Edinburgh snowed in, and it's just started snowing here!
My son was sent to Skipton yesterday got in at 8-45 pm!

You've sent them away so that you've got the house clear haven't you Joseph.

Ready to do your duty for your country.

Snowed in, you've taken a little pill you like to call a "Blue Passport" and you're 52% in.

Rascal.

 

[bobbydigital]

What's becoming ever clearer with these conversations about the Irish border is that loads are doubling down on the insanity. I guess it's hard for people to admit they were wrong, hard even just admit they have doubts.

No-one wants to admit to being fooled and nobody wants to admit to voting for something without thinking through all the ramifications (and I suppose why should they have. The government should never have put us in this position).

Are you laughing at him for doing research?... and learning?

I can see that must seem odd. Who needs knowledge and facts when you can just make stuff up.

You must be new to this thread. Leave now before it's too late.

 

[Old Blue 2]

I must have read it wrong as well then. I took it to mean that the population needs a working base of younger folk to support the older one. Not financially, (although that helps), but by keeping the world ticking over.

I understood it to be in relation to the fact that the pension payments of today are supported by the payments of tax etc. made today (as the tax payments made in my younger days by my generation went to the pensioners of those days).

Fact is, I pay tax at 20% like everyone else on my retirement pension and company pension (which was mandatory to pay into - I had no say in it whatsoever).

I hope that clarifies things.

 

[Old Blue 2]

The answer to that is to have either:
1) A higher retirement age that's more in keeping with life expectancy

The people who advocate the above have got their brains in their backside.

Implement that, and what have you got? You answer this, Bruce, before I give my answer.

 

[Joey66]

The people who advocate the above have got their brains in their backside.

Implement that, and what have you got? You answer this, Bruce, before I give my answer.

Google will go into mealtdown nowlol

 

[roydo]

I understood it to be in relation to the fact that the pension payments of today are supported by the payments of tax etc. made today (as the tax payments made in my younger days by my generation went to the pensioners of those days).

Same thing isnt it? The NI paid by you when you worked, supported the retired at the time. They didnt go into a box with Old Blue written on it. Same as now.

Private/company provision is obviously a totally different matter.

And technically, state pensions are tax free.

 

[Old Blue 2]

I don't think i'll find that at all.

Saying that migrants add to the exchequor is not about financially supporting you personally or an attack at you.

@Bruce Wayne
then goes on to talk about needing people of working age, when there will be more elderly. Which is true.

Please read the posts correctly.

(oh, and not everything is personal attack).

1. Migrants also take from the State also. Having worked in the DHSS/DSS for over 30 years, I know that. It is not a one-way street...

2. Bruce said that the answer is a higher retirement age. I'll post my response to that when I see Bruce's justification for it.

3. I did read the posts correctly This post covers not only support in the community, but financial support: "...Indeed, we need young folk of working age (which EU migrants overwhelming are) to support you, Pete and OldBlue in your retirement..." Had it not, then it should have been qualified as such in the first place.

4. I don't see it as a personal attack. When I make my point or give clarification, it's because I put my point simply and directly. Are some people (Scousers - heaven forbid!) nowadays going soft whenever they get a direct answer...?

 

[roydo]

Bruce said that the answer is a higher retirement age.

No he didnt. He said one option was to raise it, (again).

 

[Old Blue 2]

Same thing isnt it? The NI paid by you when you worked, supported the retired at the time. They didnt go into a box with Old Blue written on it. Same as now.

Private/company provision is obviously a totally different matter.

And technically, state pensions are tax free.

No roydo, retirement pension is not tax free. When I reached 65 and began receiving RP, I received a re-assessment of my tax liability from HMRC. What happens is that the company pension AND the RP are totalled up, the tax allowance is offset, and the remainder is taxed at 20%. It's taxable, end of. The scenario where it is not taxable is when someone is in receipt of RP and also in receipt of Income Support (or whatever its modern title is) - then no tax is levied on it. It may be that RP with other state benefits is not also taxable, I would have to look into that to say for sure. But with regard to the receipt of other income, it is taxable.

 

[roydo]

No roydo, retirement pension is not tax free. When I reached 65 and began receiving RP, I received a re-assessment of my tax liability from HMRC. What happens is that the company pension AND the RP are totalled up, the tax allowance is offset, and the remainder is taxed at 20%. It's taxable, end of. The scenario where it is not taxable is when someone is in receipt of RP and also in receipt of Income Support (or whatever its modern title is) - then no tax is levied on it. It may be that RP with other state benefits is not also taxable, I would have to look into that to say for sure. But with regard to the receipt of other income, it is taxable.

You receive it gross, but it counts towards your nil rate band. Like I said, Technically tax free.

edit. In the same way your income from a personal pension is nearly always taxed at source, ergo taxed income.

 

[Old Blue 2]

No he didnt. He said one option was to raise it, (again).

If we are going to get into semantics, this is exactly what he said:
"...The answer to that is to have either:
1) A higher retirement age that's more in keeping with life expectancy..."

Not option, answer.

 

[roydo]

If we are going to get into semantics, this is exactly what he said:
"...The answer to that is to have either:
1) A higher retirement age that's more in keeping with life expectancy..."

Not option, answer.

It was one of 3 options to help funding the state pension. It is an option. I have bolded the bit you seem to have missed.