Current Affairs EU In or Out

[tsubaki]

Stupid, stupid stuff from Corbyn.

If you want to campaign to remain inside, do so. Don't say "oh, let's leave but then basically re-join if we beg the EU hard enough."

It just looks completely foolish. You either believe we're better off inside the EU or you don't. By saying "leave then half-arsedly go back", he's basically playing the coward card of abiding by the referendum result but trying to sweep up 'remainers' as well.

Corbyn is actually being the consistent one here - since the vote to leave, he has been calling for a deal with the EU like this which recognizes that we have left but which is closely aligned with the EU, except on key bits of policy like nationalizations (which most European states already do anyway, as shown by the reaction to the financial crisis and the way that State firms come over here and buy our "privatized" things). If you accept that we actually did vote to leave, this is the best outcome - it isn't a hard brexit with all that entails, nor is it staying in the SM as it exists now and getting whipped every time the EU changes the rules. It is a trade deal with our biggest partners and would probably be quite easy to agree (given that it doesn't actually cross any of the EU's red lines).

The stupid people in the debate are the ones who are demanding things like continued membership of the single market instead of demanding what they actually want, which is to ignore the referendum result and stay in regardless. Of course these are the same stupid people who Corbyn smashed twice, and whose almost complete invisibility during the 2017 general election resulted in Labour's best result in a decade, so no-one should be that surprised that they are coming out with absurdities of this kind.

 

[peteblue]

Corbyn is actually being the consistent one here - since the vote to leave, he has been calling for a deal with the EU like this which recognizes that we have left but which is closely aligned with the EU, except on key bits of policy like nationalizations (which most European states already do anyway, as shown by the reaction to the financial crisis and the way that State firms come over here and buy our "privatized" things). If you accept that we actually did vote to leave, this is the best outcome - it isn't a hard brexit with all that entails, nor is it staying in the SM as it exists now and getting whipped every time the EU changes the rules. It is a trade deal with our biggest partners and would probably be quite easy to agree (given that it doesn't actually cross any of the EU's red lines).

The stupid people in the debate are the ones who are demanding things like continued membership of the single market instead of demanding what they actually want, which is to ignore the referendum result and stay in regardless. Of course these are the same stupid people who Corbyn smashed twice, and whose almost complete invisibility during the 2017 general election resulted in Labour's best result in a decade, so no-one should be that surprised that they are coming out with absurdities of this kind.

But we would not be free to put any free trade deals in place, so we might as well just stay in the EU.......it’s a dogs breakfast and Labour know it.......it’s short term political gamesmanship........

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Corbyn is actually being the consistent one here - since the vote to leave, he has been calling for a deal with the EU like this which recognizes that we have left but which is closely aligned with the EU, except on key bits of policy like nationalizations (which most European states already do anyway, as shown by the reaction to the financial crisis and the way that State firms come over here and buy our "privatized" things). If you accept that we actually did vote to leave, this is the best outcome - it isn't a hard brexit with all that entails, nor is it staying in the SM as it exists now and getting whipped every time the EU changes the rules. It is a trade deal with our biggest partners and would probably be quite easy to agree (given that it doesn't actually cross any of the EU's red lines).

The stupid people in the debate are the ones who are demanding things like continued membership of the single market instead of demanding what they actually want, which is to ignore the referendum result and stay in regardless. Of course these are the same stupid people who Corbyn smashed twice, and whose almost complete invisibility during the 2017 general election resulted in Labour's best result in a decade, so no-one should be that surprised that they are coming out with absurdities of this kind.

EEA membership is a possibility, no? It also still baffles me that there's so much triumphalism over the GE performance, when we still have what must rank as the worst government in living memory, with a PM who conducted what probably ranks as the worst campaign in living memory. It's also worth remembering that most of their gains were in 'remain' voting areas, so you do have to wonder whether many in the traditional heartlands simply couldn't bring themselves to vote Tory rather than a vote of confidence in Corbyn.

 

[Joey66]

Who would you vote for if there was a gen elcetion now? just out of curiosity...

No one

 

[tsubaki]

EEA membership is a possibility, no? It also still baffles me that there's so much triumphalism over the GE performance, when we still have what must rank as the worst government in living memory, with a PM who conducted what probably ranks as the worst campaign in living memory. It's also worth remembering that most of their gains were in 'remain' voting areas, so you do have to wonder whether many in the traditional heartlands simply couldn't bring themselves to vote Tory rather than a vote of confidence in Corbyn.

Leaving the EU to stay in the EEA is daft policy though, you may as well not leave in the first place (edit) so it baffles me that people who want to stay in are demanding staying in the SM / EEA at a push as what should happen. If you accept that we voted to leave, and I think you have to just because of the damage that ignoring it would do, then a deal which recognizes that the country doesn't want to go down the political path the EU is on but which maintains a relationship based on mutual understanding is the best possible outcome.

As for the GE performance, I would point out that when that was called May was widely praised and Labour were expected to be smashed. Obviously we now know she is rubbish and her Government is worse, but it seems a bit churlish to suggest Labour's performance in that election wasn't far and away above what it was expected to be.

But we would not be free to put any free trade deals in place, so we might as well just stay in the EU.......it’s a dogs breakfast and Labour know it.......it’s short term political gamesmanship........

Do you really trust the current Government to negotiate free trade deals with Trump and/or the Chinese? They have spent eighteen months negotiating with themselves and still haven't managed to agree.

 

[neil999]

No one

You should stand yourself lol

 

[peteblue]

Leaving the EU to stay in the EEA is daft policy though, you may as well not leave in the first place (edit) so it baffles me that people who want to stay in are demanding staying in the SM / EEA at a push as what should happen. If you accept that we voted to leave, and I think you have to just because of the damage that ignoring it would do, then a deal which recognizes that the country doesn't want to go down the political path the EU is on but which maintains a relationship based on mutual understanding is the best possible outcome.

As for the GE performance, I would point out that when that was called May was widely praised and Labour were expected to be smashed. Obviously we now know she is rubbish and her Government is worse, but it seems a bit churlish to suggest Labour's performance in that election wasn't far and away above what it was expected to be.



Do you really trust the current Government to negotiate free trade deals with Trump and/or the Chinese? They have spent eighteen months negotiating with themselves and still haven't managed to agree.

A fair point.....the last line I meant.....

 

[orchard]

Robert Hutton

@RobDotHutton
Jeremy Corbyn's Brexit position is endorsed by the CBI. Weather in Britain apparently so cold that hell actually has frozen over.
4:30 am - 26 Feb 2018

 

[Charlie Sweet]

total hypocrisy by him power seeking merchant mentioned Blair with praise - yet opposed him all his back back bench career -

Utter rubbish.

Corbyn mentioned Blair with praise in connection with the Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland. That was it. Nothing else.

The Tories are now threatening the GFA so it's now relevant to this discussion.

Had Corbyn praised Blair for any of the issues on which they'd been at loggerheads then yes you could call him a hypocrite but not this.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Why, you will only get beaten again. You say the ‘tories are split’ but what about Labour and the Labour voters who were told by Corbyn that he would respect the Leave vote. He will make his headlines today, but his nonsense will soon be shown up.

Remember his statement “The British people have made their decision. We must respect that result and Article 50 has to be invoked now so that we negotiate an exit from the European Union. Obviously there has to be strategy but the whole point of the referendum was that the public would be asked their opinion. They’ve given their opinion. It is up for Parliament to now act on that opinion.”........edit “unless I can see any short term political opportunity”.....

But Corbyn has been very clear today - he supports leaving the EU. He isn't betraying anyone.

You cannot tell me what exactly the 17.5m Leave voters had in their mind when they made their fateful decision. A customs union and a close trade deal with the EU is making the best of a bad hand. That's all.

 

[roydo]

But Corbyn has been very clear today - he supports leaving the EU. He isn't betraying anyone.

You cannot tell me what exactly the 17.5m Leave voters had in their mind when they made their fateful decision. A customs union and a close trade deal with the EU is making the best of a bad hand. That's all.

So what happens when/if the EU say Non/Nein to one? If Corbyn, or any one else for that matter reckons the EU will want a free trade deal with the UK like the one we have, and allow us to negotiate our own worldwide ones without recourse to the EU, they are in for a shock I would wager.

 

[Joey66]

Utter rubbish.

Corbyn mentioned Blair with praise in connection with the Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland. That was it. Nothing else.

The Tories are now threatening the GFA so it's now relevant to this discussion.

Had Corbyn praised Blair for any of the issues on which they'd been at loggerheads then yes you could call him a hypocrite but not this.

John Major started the Good Friday agreement- the USA also contributed- the EU did nowt - yet they throw a spanner in the works now ignoring electronic borderless hard border control !

 

[Charlie Sweet]

John Major started the Good Friday agreement- the USA also contributed- the EU did nowt - yet they throw a spanner in the works now ignoring electronic borderless hard border control !

That wasn't what you said though Joey.

You accused Corbyn of being a hypocrite in acknowledging Blair's role in the Northern Ireland peace process. John Major has nothing to do with this. Will you admit you were wrong?

 

[Charlie Sweet]

So what happens when/if the EU say Non/Nein to one?

I have no idea mate. I agree it is not a given that it can be negotiated the way he wants. I'd hope that if they say a No to the first proposso then a compromise is possible which involves a bit less advantageous to the UK and involves a bit more in it for the UK. In that scenario I don't think the EU would give a 100% No.

To be clear though I favour a continuation of the single market so I personally would be happy with that eventuality in any case!

 

[roydo]

I have no idea mate. I agree it is not a given that it can be negotiated the way he wants. I'd hope that if they say a No to the first proposso then a compromise is possible which involves a bit less advantageous to the UK and involves a bit more in it for the UK. In that scenario I don't think the EU would give a 100% No.

To be clear though I favour a continuation of the single market so I personally would be happy with that eventuality in any case!

I am losing the will to live with the whole thing. Clueless government, both major parties split, politicians playing their games in London and Brussels.

Still, we get to make our own rules. Apparently.