Current Affairs EU In or Out

[NilSatisOptimum]

Nonsense, the electorate didn't chose her as leader did they, because that's not how our system works is it?

You are right its even worse, they voted for her as the remain prime minister of United Kingdom much more compelling?

They just voted as they normally would. You ignore the fact that many of the people who voted for Brexit would never vote for the Conservatives in a million years. Did you think hardline Tories were going to vote Labour because May was for Remain or Labour voter's who voted out would vote for the Conservatives? It was never going to happ

So you suggest Brexit is not that important. But its often described by its own proponents of said movement, as the single most compelling act of Democracy the single most difficult process since the aftermath of World War two, and now not that important. So you agree that its not that important that not even a year later from this expression of democracy people were abandoning their Brexit stance and voting for the remain led parties, even more compelling?

How is it a suprise to you that they didn't change their voting habits because of Brexit?

Call me stupid but even as remainer be it a late one, EU Member States have habit of waiting for a bit and going back to the electorate to get the preferred outcome of advancement of EU agenda. Would not be the first time?

The reailty was Teresa May did as well as about what any conservative could achieve. I don't think we'll see any majority government going forward for a long time to come. Cameron managed his unexpected majority in 2015 because of the promise of the Referndum. Corbyn can claim he voted remain all he wants but his half hearted campaign and the views he's held his entire political life says otherwise.

Yet she blew Cameron's majority. And Cameron was advised by polls it would be another coalition with Clegg with EU referendum on the table. He would have sunk the referendum on those evil Lib Dems as their price for a forming another Tory led Government, hence why he walked, he gambled lost and new of the ensuing consequences so legged it. Dont think Torys and polls mix very well?

No!
Your post are really true of a remoner EU immigration is totally uncontrolled yes?
Outside it is controlled we need imigration as we have a large skill shortage due to our university drive being debated today on subjects and the removal of the vocational skill gap due to the removal of the maintenance funds - too many worthless university degrees in meaningless subject to will not build us houses or take us into the high tech jobs or medical jobs we need UK students to persue - The EU are in the WTO and control our tarrifs we need to get rid of their Polictical dogma yes?......

Because everyone is at University getting loans that they are responsible for and not building houses and not studying various vocational studies. Sounds like a mix of choice of the individual and domestic policy to me, not much to do with the EU

So to clarify you want more immigration from the rest of the world because lack of skilled labour. Sounds like the greater numbers of this so called controlled immigration from the rest of the world is over controlled and uncontrolled immigration from EU is not enough, is that a fair assessment?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

If you are a socialist cheap labour is never the answer - that is what the EU are sending some of our employers are using accommodation in a barn to deduct drive down wages The EU only our greedy capaltalist are fighting to stay in the status quo as it suits them - a free home market with incentives for a living wage is the answer Corbyn and the Labour Party have been banging on about this for years - a lot of jobs do not reach our job centres advertised by agencies in the EU - So it is very relevant!

You've got to stop Joe, this face palming is giving me a headache. We've been through these stats so many times, but roughly 10% of all migrants come and do menial work. They are also twice as likely to have a degree as the native population. Lastly, the EU don't send anyone and the very concept is absurd. People move countries because they believe it will better their life.

 

[Joey66]

You are right its even worse, they voted for her as the remain prime minister of United Kingdom much more compelling?










So you suggest Brexit is not that important. But its often described by its own proponents of said movement, as the single most compelling act of Democracy the single most difficult process since the aftermath of World War two, and now not that important. True that not even a year later from this expression of democracy people were abandoning their Brexit stance and voting for the remain led parties, even more compelling?





Call me stupid but even as remainer be it a late one, EU Member States have habit of waiting for a bit and going back to the electorate to get the preferred outcome of advancement of EU agenda. Would not be the first time?





Yet she blew Cameron's majority. And Cameron was advised by polls it would be another coalition with Clegg with EU referendum on the table. He would have sunk the referendum on those evil Lib Dems as their price for a forming another Tory led Government, hence why he walked, he gambled lost and new of the ensuing consequences so legged it. Dont think Torys and polls mix very well?








Because everyone is at University getting loans that they are responsible for and not building houses and not studying various vocational studies. Sounds like a mix of choice of the individual and domestic policy to me, not much to do with the EU

So to clarify you want more immigration from the rest of the world because of lack of skilled labour. Sounds like the greater numbers of this so called controlled immigration from the rest of the world is over controlled and uncontrolled immigration from EU is not enough, is that a fair assessment?

No the number from the. EU is uncontrolled this would drop on leaving - only then would any government wake up and train more vocational skills which can lead to high paid jobs ever tried getting a qualified tradesman!
More cowboys out there than John Wayne!

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

No the number from the. EU is uncontrolled this would drop on leaving

But its of greater number from the rest of the world now, you state there is vocational labour shortage, so by your own admission its not enough, so we need more from EU and rest of the world is that a fair suggestion?

This University debate is a different and domestic matter, many including myslef knew it was a silly idea letting free market principles in on education it was always going to go bad but there we are!

 

[Joey66]

But its of greater number from the rest of the world now, you state there is vocational labour shortage, so by your own admission its not enough, so we need more from EU and rest of the world is that a fair suggestion?

This University debate is a different and domestic matter, many including myslef knew it was a silly idea letting free market principles in on education it was always going to go bad but there we are!

From the EU not on free movement on a limited work visa - once our skill shortage is bridged then immigration should fall long term yes !

 

[Chewbacca]

No-one will pay for a qualified tradesman. Ergo, cheap Eastern European plumbers.

 

[Joey66]

You've got to stop Joe, this face palming is giving me a headache. We've been through these stats so many times, but roughly 10% of all migrants come and do menial work. They are also twice as likely to have a degree as the native population. Lastly, the EU don't send anyone and the very concept is absurd. People move countries because they believe it will better their life.

They move be abuse our wages and cost of living is attractive Bruce no face palming just fact!
Free movement is a poor thing hence you lost your referendum -
It's not free either Bruce as we are 10 BILLION in the red every year 2nd highest contributions to this Polictical organisation!
They will trade with us as they depend on it , and we can trade worldwide and our courts can rule our country Bruce - 17. .4 million agreed with me - if it had been a constitutional area vote OUT would have a 60 percent victory!
As it was it was a democratic win theirs a new remain party full of rich students started today Bruce as us outer shave been called thick , and racist!

 

[Joey66]

No-one will pay for a qualified tradesman. Ergo, cheap Eastern European plumbers.

The biggest plumbing firm in London a Tory donor has stopped his contributions to the Tories
Any socialist on here supporting remain need to observe who in the media want to remain!
It's the Rich,and the CBI - That why they are getting a great deal out of the EU the CBI get an allowance to their organisation from the EU!
Vince Cable wants to stay the EU the very man who sold our post office off too cheaply , and it was making a profit!
If remain was doing well so would the Lib Dems.......

 

[Chewbacca]

I'd be happier about leaving if we had a socialist government.

The Tory grandees will crucify the working class' rights without any sort of braking mechanism

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

You are right its even worse, they voted for her as the remain prime minister of United Kingdom much more compelling?

How did you get that from what I typed? Nobody voted for May other then her own constituency. The party made her leader and people vote for the party. What did you expect? That traditional Labour voter's would on mass vote Tory because of Brexit?! Just nonsense, it was never going happen.

So you suggest Brexit is not that important. But its often described by its own proponents of said movement, as the single most compelling act of Democracy the single most difficult process since the aftermath of World War two, and now not that important. So you agree that its not that important that not even a year later from this expression of democracy people were abandoning their Brexit stance and voting for the remain led parties, even more compelling?

How are you coming to these conclusions from what I've typed?! Seriously?! Were did I suggest that Brexit wasn't important at any point?! Not everyone voted out for the same reason so why on earth would a unique situation like the Referndum alter their normal voting habbits? Why would a traditional Labour voter who has always been against our being members of the common market/EU vote for the Conservatives and why would a Tory vote Labour because Corbyn is most likely a closet out voter? It was never going to happen in a billion years. You comment here is even more foolish because you seem to think the Conservative party was more for leaving in 2015 then it was in 2017. May I remind you that Cameron was an extremely vocal remainer who resigned because he couldn't be arsed dealing with the fallout of a situation he created. Not to mention Osborne was chancellor in 2015 and as violently against our leaving as anyone as the leader of project fear. Brexit is very important but no way in hell was it going to result in people abandoning their traditional voting habbits.

Call me stupid but even as remainer be it a late one, EU Member States have habit of waiting for a bit and going back to the electorate to get the preferred outcome of advancement of EU agenda. Would not be the first time?

Is that supposed to be a good thing in your mind? Basically telling the electorate that they will keep going back to them and demanding reruns until the get the "right result"? You will notice that they never go back to go back to the electorate when they reach the "correct decision" do they?! I wonder why that is......

It's staggering and more then a little disgusting the total and utter contempt they hold for democracy.

Yet she blew Cameron's majority. And Cameron was advised by polls it would be another coalition with Clegg with EU referendum on the table. He would have sunk the referendum on those evil Lib Dems as their price for a forming another Tory led Government, hence why he walked, he gambled lost and new of the ensuing consequences so legged it. Dont think Torys and polls mix very well?

Well would you believe It?! Somthing we 100% agree on. The rest of your post nah, but this part is spot on with regards to Cameron anyway.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

They move be abuse our wages and cost of living is attractive Bruce no face palming just fact!
Free movement is a poor thing hence you lost your referendum -
It's not free either Bruce as we are 10 BILLION in the red every year 2nd highest contributions to this Polictical organisation!
They will trade with us as they depend on it , and we can trade worldwide and our courts can rule our country Bruce - 17. .4 million agreed with me - if it had been a constitutional area vote OUT would have a 60 percent victory!
As it was it was a democratic win theirs a new remain party full of rich students started today Bruce as us outer shave been called thick , and racist!

Have you not been paying attention Joe? May said only yesterday that any of our dealings with the EU will be governed by the ECJ. As for free movement, well, there are clearly an awful lot of misinformed people in the UK.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

How did you get that from what I typed? Nobody voted for May other then her own constituency. The party made her leader and people vote for the party. What did you expect? That traditional Labour voter's would on mass vote Tory because of Brexit?! Just nonsense, it was never going happ

She is Prime Minister of a remain veiw. It was more than her own constituency that got her elected as PM be it her representatives, only some stand on local issue, whats the point of national manifestos or any party with the whips etc. The big debate around who should replace her. The will of the people elected a remain PM!

How are you coming to these conclusions from what I've typed?! Seriously?! Were did I suggest that Brexit wasn't important at any point?

You keep asking for proof of will of the people. All I suggested that if the will of the people want another referendum then they should have it. Already proven that Brexit does not sit as important on the national agenda as some in Brexit would have some believe, evidence by the popularity of the remain parties in following elections is proof enough.

Is that supposed to be a good thing in your mind? Basically telling the electorate that they will keep going back to them and demanding reruns until the get the "right result"? You will notice that they never go back to go back to the electorate when they reach the "correct decision" do they?! I wonder why that is......

Yes very much so. Fundamental foundation of any functional democracy is the ability to change political position without fear, is that bad thing?

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

She is Prime Minister of a remain. It was more than her own constituency that got her elected as PM be it her representatives, only some stand on local issue, whats the point of national manifestos or any party with the whips etc. The big debate around who should replace her The will of the people elected a remain PM!

Because people vote for party's in this country not leaders and they were never going to alter their voting habbits. She was not elected to be prime minister by the people. That's not how it works. The electorate determines the party and the party determines the leader it doesn't matter who the leader is most elections (see John Major for an incompetent mornon yet winning because of the party he lead), people traditionally vote the way they ways have. That can sometimes alter like UKIP getting four million votes and the Lib Dems getting fifty so thing MP's in 2010 but it's only a temporary thing in reailty. People will always vite for the big two party's I wish it was otherwise that's the way things are.

You keep asking for proof of will of the people. All I suggested that if the will of the people want another referendum then they should have it. Already proven that Brexit does not sit as important on the national agenda as some in Brexit would have some believe, evidence by the popularity of the remain parties in following elections is proof enough.

All I ask you to do is prove that a second vote is the "will of the people" and I will support it. I really will, but you won't because you can't. The fact remains that you have zero proof, some polls here and there from unreliable sources who make no secret of their loyalty to the remain cause do not count as creditable sources. Nor does the election count to anyone thinking logically. Who were the Brexiters supposed to vote for? Brexit is obviously massively important to the national agenda. More people voted in the Referndum then they did the election so how exactly does that mean they refendum means less. I'll ask again, who were the Brexiters supposed to vote for? If not the Tories and Labour like they always do? UKIP? Nobody ever cared about that party and with Farrarge gone it was dead. There was no out or remain party. The only way to properly find out how "the people" felt by an election would of been if there had been a leave coalition party vs a remain coalition party. That was never going to happen so people voted in their normal habbits. May said she'd respect and uphold the leave vote and frankly that was more then a lot of other leaders said they would.

Yes very much so. Fundamental foundation of any functional democracy is the ability to change political position without fear, is that bad thing?

Depends on the reason a second vote for anything takes place and the length of time they've waited from the previous decision. The habbit it of the EU to demand rerun after rerun until the get their way is disgusting and anyone would be laughing if we'd voted remain and leave was still after all this time screaming for a second go. There is absolutely nothing democratic about ignoring a vote. Changing you mind and going back and some point or attempting to, fine but just ignoring the first decision is nothing short of a disgrace. You absolutely would not be advocating a second Referndum had the first resulted in remain and you know it so this pretense about the "will of the people" is nonsense because you couldn't care less what "the people" think if they have the gall to disagree with you.

 

[peteblue]

Hahahaha......Bulgaria stick it to us now........we should be grateful.....Bulgaria ffs.........

“It has been a busy month for Bulgaria and Ms Zaharieva ( foreign minister) who earlier this month told Britain to be grateful for the proposed Brexit transition period.

She said the offer of a 21-month transition period is an act of generosity which the UK “asked for”.

Ms Zakharieva said said: “This is goodwill from the European part because we accepted this transition period.

“We didn’t ask for a transition period, it was not our idea, that’s why it’s not correct when they say ‘you make us a vassal state’. Because they asked for it.”


......good job that the EU doesn’t have to get ready to continue trading with their biggest market.......

 

[peteblue]

I see that, as expected, the leaked project fear 2 document claiming that GDP will fall, has now been reviewed by Professor Patrick Minford; Dr Gerard Lyons economic advisor; Julian Jessop, Chief Economist at the Institute of Economic Affairs; and Roger Bootle, the founder and chairman of Capital Economics, one of the largest macro-economic consultancies in the world. They have suggested that the leaked report made some rather outlandish assumptions while including no benefit from any addditional world trade. They have also suggested that rather than a decrease in GDP there will actually be an increase of between 2-4%........