joey_macmo
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“it predates the European Union”
That’s the point, it clearly doesn’t work in the single market scenario we are presented with.
Current Affairs EU In or Out
- Thread starter micknick
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“it predates the European Union”
That’s the point, it clearly doesn’t work in the single market scenario we are presented with.
British ministers clash over Border’s future after Brexit
Pro-Leave MPs claim Treasury ‘scaremongering’ over North’s peace process to push May toward ‘soft’ Brexit
about 14 hours ago
George Parker, Alex Barker
Ministers clashed at Theresa May’s cabinet Brexit committee meeting. Image: AFP/Getty Images
George Parker in London and Alex Barker in Strasbourg
British ministers have clashed over the future of the Irish Border, following pro-Leave MPs’ claims the Treasury is engaged in “scaremongering” over the implications for the peace process of a “no deal” Brexit.
At a meeting of UK prime minister Theresa May’s cabinet Brexit committee on Wednesday, chancellor Philip Hammond and home secretary Amber Ruddwere among the ministers who argued for the closest possible alignment between the United Kingdom and EU after Brexit to avoid the return of a “hard” Irish Border.
Leaked government impact assessments showed Northern Ireland would suffer more than most other regions in the event of a “no deal” exit.
But before the meeting, one pro-Brexit minister said the Treasury had been “scaremongering” about a possible return of strife to Northern Ireland, to push Ms May towards a “soft” Brexit and possible extension of a customs union.
“There are people saying that because the Northern Ireland question is insuperable, you have to have common standards and full alignment,” said the minister. “It’s absolute rubbish.”
Britain’s border with Ireland will become an external border with the EU and its single market after Brexit, but the UK government has yet to spell out how it will avoid imposing customs infrastructure, beyond suggesting that there is a technological solution.
Pro-Brexit ministers on the 11-member cabinet committee, including foreign secretary Boris Johnson and environment secretary Michael Gove, have argued technology and “trusted trader” schemes can be deployed to avoid the need for a hard Irish Border.
But the dilemma of how to avoid a hard Border, while at the same time achieving Ms May’s objective of leaving the EU single market and customs union, is seen by some ministers as a major obstacle to a Brexit deal.
Damian Green, Ms May’s former deputy, has referred to the problem as “Schrödinger’s border”, a reference to the thought experiment by Austrian physicist Erwin Schrödinger featuring a cat that may be simultaneously both alive and dead.
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The Brexit committee met for two-and-a-half hours on Wednesday, for talks that focused on Northern Ireland but also touched on future immigration rules for EU citizens.
The prime minister’s allies said that all ministers spoke on Wednesday. The committee will meet again Thursday to discuss Brexit-related security issues.
One person briefed on Wednesday’s meeting said: “There was no breakthrough on Northern Ireland, more that they needed to think about it some more.”
Downing Street played down expectations that the two meetings would lead to an early pronouncement by Ms May about what Britain hopes to achieve as its “end state relationship” with the EU.
Senior EU figures see Northern Ireland as the single biggest risk in Brexit talks, and Ms May is being urged to give greater clarity on a fragile compromise reached before Christmas on the Irish Border.
Officials in Brussels have warned that unless Britain sets out details on its preferred “deep and special partnership” in the coming weeks, then the remaining 27 EU member states will simply produce negotiating guidelines for a limited “Canada-style”, third-country trade deal.
Meanwhile, Ireland is focused on securing watertight legal guarantees from the UK on the border issue. But Irish ministers also see the need for extra time to ensure “practical” solutions can be found, especially relating to customs arrangements.
Tánaiste Simon Coveney has said that a minimum five-year transition period will be required after the United Kingdom leaves the EU in March 2019.
The Brexit negotiations cabinet committee is finely balanced, with four strongly pro-Remain ministers: Mr Hammond, Ms Rudd, Cabinet Office minister David Lidington and business secretary Greg Clark.
Karen Bradley, the new Northern Ireland secretary, also backed Remain in the run-up to the 2016 referendum.
Four committee members campaigned for Leave: Mr Johnson, Mr Gove, trade secretary Liam Fox and Brexit secretary David Davis. Gavin Williamson, the new defence secretary, voted Remain but has recently backed the Brexiters.–- Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2018"
Quite telling really.
"One person briefed on Wednesday’s meeting said: “There was no breakthrough on Northern Ireland, more that they needed to think about it some more.”
In other words some at the Cabinet meeting, Gove and Johnson, haven't a clue what the situation is on the island of Ireland. Not surprising really as it never crosses their minds until they need to make political advantage out of Northern Ireland.
Pro-Leave MPs claim Treasury ‘scaremongering’ over North’s peace process to push May toward ‘soft’ Brexit
about 14 hours ago
George Parker, Alex Barker
Ministers clashed at Theresa May’s cabinet Brexit committee meeting. Image: AFP/Getty Images
George Parker in London and Alex Barker in Strasbourg
British ministers have clashed over the future of the Irish Border, following pro-Leave MPs’ claims the Treasury is engaged in “scaremongering” over the implications for the peace process of a “no deal” Brexit.
At a meeting of UK prime minister Theresa May’s cabinet Brexit committee on Wednesday, chancellor Philip Hammond and home secretary Amber Ruddwere among the ministers who argued for the closest possible alignment between the United Kingdom and EU after Brexit to avoid the return of a “hard” Irish Border.
Leaked government impact assessments showed Northern Ireland would suffer more than most other regions in the event of a “no deal” exit.
But before the meeting, one pro-Brexit minister said the Treasury had been “scaremongering” about a possible return of strife to Northern Ireland, to push Ms May towards a “soft” Brexit and possible extension of a customs union.
“There are people saying that because the Northern Ireland question is insuperable, you have to have common standards and full alignment,” said the minister. “It’s absolute rubbish.”
Britain’s border with Ireland will become an external border with the EU and its single market after Brexit, but the UK government has yet to spell out how it will avoid imposing customs infrastructure, beyond suggesting that there is a technological solution.
Pro-Brexit ministers on the 11-member cabinet committee, including foreign secretary Boris Johnson and environment secretary Michael Gove, have argued technology and “trusted trader” schemes can be deployed to avoid the need for a hard Irish Border.
But the dilemma of how to avoid a hard Border, while at the same time achieving Ms May’s objective of leaving the EU single market and customs union, is seen by some ministers as a major obstacle to a Brexit deal.
Damian Green, Ms May’s former deputy, has referred to the problem as “Schrödinger’s border”, a reference to the thought experiment by Austrian physicist Erwin Schrödinger featuring a cat that may be simultaneously both alive and dead.
ADVERTISEMENT
The Brexit committee met for two-and-a-half hours on Wednesday, for talks that focused on Northern Ireland but also touched on future immigration rules for EU citizens.
The prime minister’s allies said that all ministers spoke on Wednesday. The committee will meet again Thursday to discuss Brexit-related security issues.
One person briefed on Wednesday’s meeting said: “There was no breakthrough on Northern Ireland, more that they needed to think about it some more.”
Downing Street played down expectations that the two meetings would lead to an early pronouncement by Ms May about what Britain hopes to achieve as its “end state relationship” with the EU.
Senior EU figures see Northern Ireland as the single biggest risk in Brexit talks, and Ms May is being urged to give greater clarity on a fragile compromise reached before Christmas on the Irish Border.
Officials in Brussels have warned that unless Britain sets out details on its preferred “deep and special partnership” in the coming weeks, then the remaining 27 EU member states will simply produce negotiating guidelines for a limited “Canada-style”, third-country trade deal.
Meanwhile, Ireland is focused on securing watertight legal guarantees from the UK on the border issue. But Irish ministers also see the need for extra time to ensure “practical” solutions can be found, especially relating to customs arrangements.
Tánaiste Simon Coveney has said that a minimum five-year transition period will be required after the United Kingdom leaves the EU in March 2019.
The Brexit negotiations cabinet committee is finely balanced, with four strongly pro-Remain ministers: Mr Hammond, Ms Rudd, Cabinet Office minister David Lidington and business secretary Greg Clark.
Karen Bradley, the new Northern Ireland secretary, also backed Remain in the run-up to the 2016 referendum.
Four committee members campaigned for Leave: Mr Johnson, Mr Gove, trade secretary Liam Fox and Brexit secretary David Davis. Gavin Williamson, the new defence secretary, voted Remain but has recently backed the Brexiters.–- Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2018"
Quite telling really.
"One person briefed on Wednesday’s meeting said: “There was no breakthrough on Northern Ireland, more that they needed to think about it some more.”
In other words some at the Cabinet meeting, Gove and Johnson, haven't a clue what the situation is on the island of Ireland. Not surprising really as it never crosses their minds until they need to make political advantage out of Northern Ireland.
PROJECT FEAR again......Government faces difficulty securing binding Border deal
Ministers fear EU’s patience with the UK is running out amid renewed Brexit talks
about 20 hours ago
Pat Leahy
Screengrab from UK’s Parliamentary Recording Unit footage showing British prime minister Theresa May pointing towards Boris Johnson. Photograph: AFP Photo/PRU
Theresa May chaired a cabinet meeting which discussed the British position, but sources in London said they expected no decisive moves on the British government position.
“It’s hard to negotiate with the British government because the British government is effectively still negotiating with itself,” said one influential source in Dublin.
Senior sources in Dublin and Brussels point to the contradiction in the British government’s stated positions.
While London has pledged to maintain a soft border in Ireland, if necessary by maintaining the same rules on either side of the Border, the EU believes this is incompatible with the UK’s stated desire to leave the single market and the customs union in order to negotiate trade deals with other countries.
‘Fudging’ untenable
“The British positions are irreconcilable,” said a senior source in Dublin. “And we have reached the point where fudging that is no longer tenable.”
The European Commission is likely to propose wording in the coming weeks for the legal agreement giving force to the political declarations about the Border made by the British government in advance of last December’s European summit. However, putting these in a legal text is likely to be difficult for the British government to agree to, sources say.
“It’s not the case that the EU is struggling to come up with a legal text. The struggle will be to agree it with the British,” according to a person familiar with the process.
The December agreement stipulated that in the event there was no agreement between the UK and the EU, the British would propose solutions to the problem of keeping the status quo on the Border.
If these were not agreed, the British said, then the UK would “maintain full alignment with those rules of the internal market and the customs union which, now or in the future, support North-South co-operation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 agreement.”
Northern Ireland
Officials expect that the commission draft will propose that in the event of no agreement, a combination of single market and customs unions rules should apply to Northern Ireland.
“The commission will propose something that enables Northern Ireland to function as if it was still part of the EU. That’ll be difficult for the British,” one source familiar with discussions in Brussels said.
The Irish Government is also concerned that EU sentiment towards Britain is hardening, risking a total breakdown of the Brexit talks. “The British are seeking latitude and it just isn’t there,” said one informed source".
It's make your mind up time for May and the Tories.
More than that, and I'm not sure many leavers really get this, they want to remain in the single market because of free movement of people. They rely on having the best talent available, and so free movement across the EU is a big attraction. You only have to look at the ongoing challenge in the States the tech companies have in bringing in people from overseas. There isn't a high skilled sector that doesn't love free movement, and that's arguably a bigger draw than having no tariffs.
Charlie Sweet
Player Valuation: £35m
Japan Joey. My post was in response to your statement about Japan. I gave you a reason to support my view. What's your reason to think that the UK can negotiate a better deal with Japan than the EU can? As indicated above the Japanese PM is highlighting the benefits of the EU single market.
So - Japan?
The government aren't too worried about that. The only people worried are back bench tories.
The idea that Newry, Dundalk or Strabane could turn into a Calais is insane. It won't happen.
I suspect in reality though people are opposed to the idea of free movement rather than the reality, so as long as the idea of it still exists (via Ireland), that will surely represent a problem for a government trying to perform the 'will of the people'? When you create the idea that the boogyman exists, you can't then leave the door unlocked when you made a big thing about government needing to guard the door.
The EU earlier last year after the UK had done a expansion deal with Nissan in the UK set up a trade deal with Japan - one upmanship at its highest order - Now nissan are concerned over the UK as they have the EU to fall back on - a underhand tactic they are famous for - its ok to negotiate trade deals, but try to scupper our trade deals we are dealing with the devil ie the EU!
I don't think the EU began those trade talks last year mate, they'll have been ongoing for years. Indeed, a quick Google suggests they were begun in 2013.
Bruce finger on the pulse I am correct see a google link last August the EU did a deal with Nissan -
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/potential-eu-japan-deal-raises-13412966
Bruce finger on the pulse I am correct see a google link last August the EU did a deal with Nissan -
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/potential-eu-japan-deal-raises-13412966
Negotiations for that deal began in 2013 (25th March to be precise) - http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/index.cfm?id=881 - and it wasn't with Nissan specifically but Japan as a nation (as all trade deals are). It's got nothing to do with Brexit, except of course when we leave the EU, we won't be party to the EU-Japan deal, and therefore Nissan will be affected unless the UK signs it's own deal with Japan on similar terms.
neil999
Player Valuation: £80m
Your sounding more like trump each day...
It seems so strange the EU can trade at will and I am suspicious that we strike a deal early last year with Nissan that yesterday is now in jeopardy the power of the bullying Eu they control our worldwide trade just call me very sceptical that they drive a deal a about six months later that we secure a deal of expansion of nissan in the north east in the UK - this is an organisation weiding its power to scupper our trade deals hence the reason the UK public wanted out, and voted out -
That's the power of an organisation who do not believe in democracy, letting us get on with it I feel Brexit will be reversed now as the remoaners are financing the battle to squash democrocy!
so you think the politicians named are fantastic hey Jezza does not favour them!
That's the power of the conspiracy theory in your mind Joe. I'll reiterate again though, our deal with Nissan was a bung to them to ensure they kept their factory open. The EU-Japan trade deal was designed (as all trade deals are) to remove tariffs and standardise regulations to smooth trade between two countries/regions. There would be no payments made to individual companies.
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