Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Fedlingen]

Oh I don't know. Maybe the part were we'd basically just be ignoring the first one simply because it wasn't the result you and other remainers wanted?

To be honest, i couldn't be arsed. (Not a brit).

But stating that it's undemocratic is just nonsense.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

To be honest, i couldn't be arsed. (Not a brit).

But stating that it's undemocratic is just nonsense.

To just wilfully ignore the single largest vote of any democratic decision in this country's history wouldn't be undemocratic? Ok mate.

It's not even so much the idea of ignoring the referendum that I have a problem with but the pathetic call for a second referendum. It's only being suggested so that remainers can pretend that they care about democracy by wanting a second. If of thought it wrong if Fararge had demanded one if remain had won and it's just as wrong now. People want to just ignore it? Fine, but it would be great if they could stop pretending they the moral high ground when they clearly don't.

 

[roydo]

If of thought it wrong if Fararge had demanded one if remain had won and it's just as wrong now.

He did exactly that though. The quote, to paraphrase, was "If Remain win with a margin of say 4%, the result is too close to be deemed conclusive, and a second vote would be appropriate"

But like all the other tripe him and his cronies said to convince the gullible to vote leave, its all now dismissed as "Well everyone told lies"

Democracy that?

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

He did exactly that though. The quote, to paraphrase, was "If Remain win with a margin of say 4%, the result is too close to be deemed conclusive, and a second vote would be appropriate"

But like all the other tripe him and his cronies said to convince the gullible to vote leave, its all now dismissed as "Well everyone told lies"

Democracy that?

Fararge is a loathsome individual. Why anyone would use his words or use him as the measuring stick of what is right and wrong is beyond me. Seems to me that you and other remainers paid more attention to him then I did and every leave voter I know did who cast their vote to leave despite what Farrarge said rather than because of what he had to say.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Yet more lazy generalisations about 17.5million people. Plentey of the older generation that I'm acquainted with voted remain and not all younger voters were so pig ignorant that they didn't bother to vote at all. In fact more younger people voted leave then some would like to think.

By a significant margin it was the old, the depressed and the poorly educated that voted to Leave with blissful ignorance of the consequences.

Of course some young/educated did vote Leave but the emphasis was very definitely the other way.

 

[roydo]

Fararge is a loathsome individual. Why anyone would use his words are beyond me. Seems to me that you and other remainers paid more attention to him then me and every leave voter I know who cast their vote to leave despite what Farrarge said rather than because of what he had to say.

You seriously suggesting that the "loathsome individual" had no influence on voters perhaps less informed than you?

FWIW, I paid little attention to anyone on either side of the debate. I, reluctantly, voted stay because such folk as Farage Boris, et al were so keen on it, and on balance, I would prefer to have some certainty in our economy and country.

 

[Mr. White]

Regarding the bolded bit... well, it's their job - that's quite literally the sole reason we elect them. Sure, they will make mistakes, but we effectively hire them to not deliberately make those mistakes and act in good faith.

Now here's the problem - the vast majority of MPs privately believe Brexit is utter madness. If they had a free vote now on it and it was secret and anonymous, they'd vote against Brexit everytime.

As for "responsibility was passed from the government to the voters", that is simply not true. Here's the actual black and white:

It was always meant to be advisory. Yes, it can be a strong influence, but under no circumstances can a non-binary referendum be used by politicians to excuse them from doing their job.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ean-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

This is what was posted through everybody's letterbox. "A once in a generation decision.......your chance to decide.....this is your decision....the government will implement."

That's pretty crystal clear to me!!

There is no mention of it being advisory, or the option having a second, third, fourth referendum until you make the 'right' decision.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

By a significant margin it was the old, the depressed and the poorly educated that voted to Leave with blissful ignorance of the consequences.

Of course some young/educated did vote Leave but the emphasis was very definitely the other way.

Apologies @Gwladysstreetlad I didn't mean that to read as badly as it does. The breakdown of who voted Leave is there for all to see. My point really is that I honestly believe the knock on after effects are genuinely terrible for this country and to the it all back to a simple Yes/No vote where lies upon lies were told is ridiculous. Yes there was a Project Fear and I believe it's already playing out and we haven't even seen the worst of it yet once we actually Leave!

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

By a significant margin it was the old, the depressed and the poorly educated that voted to Leave with blissful ignorance of the consequences.

Of course some young/educated did vote Leave but the emphasis was very definitely the other way.

If the statistics which back up your claims are true then so is the claim that most young voters didn't vote remain or leave but just didnt bother to vote at all! 64% of younger didn't turn out. See how statistics can be twisted?

 

[roydo]

View attachment 43747
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ean-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

This is what was posted through everybody's letterbox. "A once in a generation decision.......your chance to decide.....this is your decision....the government will implement."

That's pretty crystal clear to me!!

There is no mention of it being advisory, or the option having a second, third, fourth referendum until you make the 'right' decision.

Quite. I dont want a second vote, that way lies madness.

But I do want the HOC to have a vote on the final deal, y'know, Make our own Rules, and all that. And if Parliament cant agree to it, then, well, perhaps they will vote for a new vote. Dunno.

But at least it will the Sovereign Parliament making its own rules.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Apologies @Gwladysstreetlad I didn't mean that to read as badly as it does. The breakdown of who voted Leave is there for all to see. My point really is that I honestly believe the knock on after effects are genuinely terrible for this country and to the it all back to a simple Yes/No vote where lies upon lies were told is ridiculous. Yes there was a Project Fear and I believe it's already playing out and we haven't even seen the worst of it yet once we actually Leave!

It's fine mate, all about opinions.

We'll just have to agree to disagree over it. Neither of us are gonna change our mind over leave or remain at this stage are we? I just find it a bit shocking the way it's completly fine to basically dismiss 17.5million people's view because you (not you personally) disagree with them.

 

[Tubey]

View attachment 43747
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ean-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

This is what was posted through everybody's letterbox. "A once in a generation decision.......your chance to decide.....this is your decision....the government will implement."

That's pretty crystal clear to me!!

There is no mention of it being advisory, or the option having a second, third, fourth referendum until you make the 'right' decision.

That's a leaflet; not legislation. The government that made that 'promise' in what was effectively election material is no longer in office.

The legislation is unambiguous - the referendum was non-binding and never meant to be conclusive on that issue.

 

[roydo]

It's fine mate, all about opinions.

We'll just have to agree to disagree over it. Neither of us are gonna change our mind over leave or remain at this stage are we? I just find it a bit shocking the way it's completly fine to basically dismiss 17.5million people's view because you (not you personally) disagree with them.

But in the same vein, dismissing 16m odd who voted to stay is perfectly acceptable? I get told repeatedly to in here to "get over it", you are a "remoaner", etc, when all I want is the final deal to be ratified by our Parliament.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

But in the same vein, dismissing 16m odd who voted to stay is perfectly acceptable? I get told repeatedly to in here to "get over it", you are a "remoaner", etc, when all I want is the final deal to be ratified by our Parliament.

It's not acceptable to dismiss them but i just think the will of the majority should superseed the minority in a vote. I'm old fashioned that way you see.

 

[Mr. White]

Tubey, as I acknowledged earlier, technically you are correct, it was advisory. But that piece of legislation was not what was posted through everybody's front door. To fall back on that legislation would be against the spirit of the referendum.

And lets not forget that the government of the day voted 544 to 53 in favour of holding the referendum. That's cross party support.