Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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I expect us to get shafted and end up paying around 55 billion to leave.
We were never going to get a favourable deal from the EU as they want to make sure nobody else has any ideas about leaving.

Fully expect them to have already talked amoungst themselves to drag out the trade talks when they start.
 
Cornwall appeals to government as crops ‘rot in fields’ due to shortage in migrant labour after Brexit

The local council authority in the region, which vthe EU, says it is concerned by 'a sharp fall in the number of EU workers
Essential staffing levels for farms have dropped by two-thirds since the Brexit vote


Crops in Cornwall are said to be "rotting in the fields" due to a lack of migrant workers to harvest them in the wake of Britain's decision to leave the European Union.

The county council has approached the Government to request it implement area-specific migration laws after Brexit, will help to deliver skills to the area.

Cornwall voted to leave the European Union in last year's referendum by more than 56 per cent, considerably above the national average. The area is home to 17,000 EU nationals, making up 3 per cent of the county's population. But research commissioned by the council found that, since the Brexit vote, staffing levels for farms had dropped to 65 per cent of what would normally be required.


Gordon Brown on Brexit: Britain will hit a 'crisis point' next Summer
The study found that changes to migration laws following Britain’s exit from the EU could lead to multimillion pound losses if the horticultural industry cannot find the skilled work force it needs.

“If we put strict limits on Eastern European migrant labour or devise alternative immigration policies that limit so-called ‘low-skilled’ labour, the Cornish horticultural industry is finished," said David Simmons of Riviera Produce, one of Cornwall's biggest producers



Pretty sure the Cornish leave vote was based very much on fishing issues, and I can get that.

But like many, they didnt really think it through did they.
 
Cornwall appeals to government as crops ‘rot in fields’ due to shortage in migrant labour after Brexit

The local council authority in the region, which vthe EU, says it is concerned by 'a sharp fall in the number of EU workers
Essential staffing levels for farms have dropped by two-thirds since the Brexit vote


Crops in Cornwall are said to be "rotting in the fields" due to a lack of migrant workers to harvest them in the wake of Britain's decision to leave the European Union.

The county council has approached the Government to request it implement area-specific migration laws after Brexit, will help to deliver skills to the area.

Cornwall voted to leave the European Union in last year's referendum by more than 56 per cent, considerably above the national average. The area is home to 17,000 EU nationals, making up 3 per cent of the county's population. But research commissioned by the council found that, since the Brexit vote, staffing levels for farms had dropped to 65 per cent of what would normally be required.


Gordon Brown on Brexit: Britain will hit a 'crisis point' next Summer
The study found that changes to migration laws following Britain’s exit from the EU could lead to multimillion pound losses if the horticultural industry cannot find the skilled work force it needs.

“If we put strict limits on Eastern European migrant labour or devise alternative immigration policies that limit so-called ‘low-skilled’ labour, the Cornish horticultural industry is finished," said David Simmons of Riviera Produce, one of Cornwall's biggest producers
If their very large agri-business isn't viable, there are plenty of people who would love a few acres, aren't afraid to do the work themselves and supply the local market and beyond.
Change to a viable non-subsidised business plan, or get out.
 
Exactly mate, no reason whatsoever.

@tommytowne gave you a perfectly sensible reason for his vote, you chose to believe it’s not good enough or not a reason at all, so what is the point of continuing. He has made up his mind, you have made up your mind, a vote was taken and enough people held similar views as he did. So we are leaving the EU. All that should be left to talk about now is how the U.K. and the EU can do a sensible deal or agreement for the benefit of all.......
 
Pretty sure the Cornish leave vote was based very much on fishing issues, and I can get that.

But like many, they didnt really think it through did they.

Did you think it through, or did you decide that there would be less risk in doing nothing. It was a very easy call for those who voted remain, just do nothing, no angst and no fear. The leave voters, for whatever their personal reasons, had to overcome the threats of impending doom, their own doubts about whether they were doing the right thing, the angst and the fear for the future. Yet still they voted to leave. If anybody ‘thought it through’ it was probably those that voted, all 17.4 million of them, to leave......
 
If their very large agri-business isn't viable, there are plenty of people who would love a few acres, aren't afraid to do the work themselves and supply the local market and beyond.
Change to a viable non-subsidised business plan, or get out.

Lol so there are plenty of people who have shown no interest to date, but that are queuing in the shadows waiting for just the right moment?
 
Did you think it through, or did you decide that there would be less risk in doing nothing. It was a very easy call for those who voted remain, just do nothing, no angst and no fear. The leave voters, for whatever their personal reasons, had to overcome the threats of impending doom, their own doubts about whether they were doing the right thing, the angst and the fear for the future. Yet still they voted to leave. If anybody ‘thought it through’ it was probably those that voted, all 17.4 million of them, to leave......

Can you point to a single analysis of voter intentions and motivations where this is true Pete? You've tried to paint this picture of leave voters as brave adventurers numerous times and it isn't replicated in actual facts whatsoever. With your political persuasions I presume you'll get the reference, but leave voters aren't exactly the ones that would be heading to Galt's Gulch. You know?
 
Haha, 'cos it's that simplistic. Again, you're coming across as partizan.

Not at all, but the future tends to be formed by things that are weak signals in the present, so if there was a small sign that the native population would be happy, willing and able to pick up the slack caused when the migrant population is reduced, then that would be an indication that what Pete suggests could occur. Unfortunately there's no sign of that happening yet, so I fail to see where you get your optimism for unless it's of the blind sort.
 
-or you're 'blind' because you have no experience here ?
It has nothing to do with optimism. I have met hundred's of people who would love to take over a minute portion of that farm and have better business models that don't depend on subsidy, but are priced out of the market by the very same.
You're right, they wouldn't set foot in an industrialised agri set-up, nor are they desperate for work. Not that the jobs have been advertised on these shores anyway.

By being Partizan and wilfully ignorant of the complexities involved, you're behaving exactly in the way that forced a good proportion of voters to vote leave in the first place, imo.

Not at all, but the future tends to be formed by things that are weak signals in the present, so if there was a small sign that the native population would be happy, willing and able to pick up the slack caused when the migrant population is reduced, then that would be an indication that what Pete suggests could occur. Unfortunately there's no sign of that happening yet, so I fail to see where you get your optimism for unless it's of the blind sort.
 
JC in The Times:

Theresa May’s government shows every sign of crumbling before our eyes. The Conservative manifesto has been mostly junked. Cabinet resignations follow each other in quick succession. There have been so many policy U-turns, no one is quite sure which way the government is facing. And when it comes to Brexit, confusion and division risk dangerously weakening Britain’s hand. The Brexit talks are at a crucial point. The country cannot afford the crippling splits and indecision at the heart of government.

On Tuesday the misnamed EU withdrawal bill, which is in reality an undemocratic government power-grab, comes back to parliament. Its return follows weeks of damaging delay. That has only added to the sense of chaotic dithering around the Conservatives’ approach to Brexit.

Nearly 17 months since Britain voted to leave the EU, we are still none the wiser as to what our future relationship with our biggest trading partners is going to look like.

The government can’t give a lead because the cabinet is split down the middle, spending more time negotiating with each other than with the EU. That gives the whip hand to grandstanding EU negotiators. One week the home secretary says a “no-deal” exit from the EU would be “unthinkable”. The next week the Brexit secretary insists “no deal must be an option”.

For the market fundamentalist throwbacks in the Tory cabinet, “no deal” is in reality a strategy, not a negotiating tactic. It is the extreme version of the wider Conservative intention to use Brexit as a device to drive down wages and conditions, deregulate consumer and environmental protections and slash corporate taxation in a destructive race to the bottom.

“No deal” would risk a jobs meltdown. As Boris Johnson made clear in his fantasy Brexit manifesto, the real aim is not only to reinforce the existing economic system’s ballooning inequalities and growing insecurity but also to put them on steroids. Rather than arguing for ways to undermine rights, protections and freedoms at home, the foreign secretary should be focusing on his day job and acting to promote international peace, security and the interests of our citizens abroad.

Instead he’s doing the opposite. After a string of offensive gaffes, including declaring that the Libyan city of Sirte could become another Dubai once they “clear the dead bodies away”, he has now put the future liberty of the British citizen Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe under serious threat because of his incompetent bungling. He should have the decency to say clearly and unequivocally that he was wrong and do everything possible to ensure that Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe doesn’t pay the price for his cavalier mistake.

In the interests of both the government and the country, the prime minister should act to ensure the foreign secretary can cause no further damage to our citizens abroad. But Theresa May appears to be in no position to do anything of the kind. She shows every sign of being in office but not in power.

Two weeks ago the prime minister told MPs that transitional Brexit arrangements will not be negotiated until the terms of the final deal with the EU have been agreed. This was apparently aimed at keeping the “no-deal” Tories on board. But such Alice in Wonderland posturing makes no sense and only adds to the confusion. It’s precisely because we are still so far from a final deal that transitional arrangements are now essential.

Both the Confederation of British Industry and the Trades Union Congress argue that the longer we delay agreeing transitional terms, the more job-creating investment decisions will be deferred and the greater the risk of some companies leaving Britain altogether at the cost of thousands of jobs.

The Conservatives’ internal divisions are driving their approach to Brexit. Labour is instead making the case for a jobs-first Brexit that prioritises full access to European markets, guarantees the rights of EU citizens, uses powers returned from Brussels to invest and upgrade Britain’s economy and protects and extends workers’ and consumer rights and environmental standards.

Labour wants to see a new co-operative relationship with Europe. We have proposed a time-limited transitional deal on the same basic terms as now. Such arrangements will not frustrate Brexit but will make possible a Brexit that puts jobs and living standards first.

The prime minister is too weak even to make this obviously necessary commitment. The government’s disarray across the board is painful to watch: from the public sector pay cap to tuition fees, Tory ministers are flip-flopping and incoherent.

When we brought these pressing public issues to the House of Commons, along with social care and universal credit, the government was forced to concede that it did not have a majority and refused to vote.

The parliamentary floundering continued last week when the government refused to publish its own “Tory Brexit” economic impact assessments for 58 sectors of the economy. Labour had to win a vote in parliament using an ancient parliamentary procedure to force their release. After the Speaker demanded that ministers follow the will of parliament and publish the papers, the government claimed they don’t actually exist as previously described.

After so many U-turns no one is sure which way the Tories are facing The Conservatives have wasted months evading scrutiny to keep the public in the dark. So what are they hiding and why?

The truth is this government currently has no plan or vision for a post-Brexit economy beyond a few TTIP-style deregulation and investor protection deals with the Trump administration.

That is deeply alarming. A bad Brexit deal risks making weaknesses in our economy — low investment, low productivity and low pay – even worse. Brexit should instead give us the impetus to tackle our productivity crisis, which is making our country poorer.

The answer lies in investment: in infrastructure, new technologies and people. That’s why the chancellor should use his autumn budget to change direction and invest for long-term growth. Labour has already pledged to create a national transformation fund to upgrade our country’s infrastructure and a national investment bank with a network of regional development banks to provide patient finance for firms.

And we are committed to building a national education service to ensure that, where skilled jobs are created and new technologies adopted, there are people able to fill them and operate them.

Continuing uncertainty about the government’s approach to Brexit is now the biggest risk facing our country. The prime minister must end the confusion, take on the “no-deal” extremists in her government and back a jobs-first Brexit for Britain.

This government is failing to act on the critical issues of the day: the tax scandal highlighted by the Paradise Papers, the growing housing crisis, falling pay and living standards, and the botched rollout of Universal Credit that threatens to make millions worse off.

If she can’t get a grip, she should move out of the way and let Labour deliver a Brexit that works for the many, not the few. It is time for Theresa May to stop dithering and decide: whether to govern or go.
 
-or you're 'blind' because you have no experience here ?
It has nothing to do with optimism. I have met hundred's of people who would love to take over a minute portion of that farm and have better business models that don't depend on subsidy, but are priced out of the market by the very same.
You're right, they wouldn't set foot in an industrialised agri set-up, nor are they desperate for work. Not that the jobs have been advertised on these shores anyway.

By being Partizan and wilfully ignorant of the complexities involved, you're behaving exactly in the way that forced a good proportion of voters to vote leave in the first place, imo.

You must speak to the same people as Chris Grayling. Is there currently absolutely no way for those people to build a business? As for your last comment, I'm not sure that's what I'm doing whatsoever. Indeed, it has largely been the preserve of Brexiters to paint a simplistic version of the world in order to sell this whole thing. Britain will be better off out, we will take back control, all of those who didn't benefit from globalisation will be better off, Europe will bow to us because they sell more to us than we to them, we will have lots of spare money for the NHS, migration will be down to tens of thousands, and so on.

My line of work revolves around complexity and very rarely is anything ever guaranteed, yet Brexit, and the other populist movements from around the world, made breaking with the status quo not only sound incredibly easy, but certain to succeed. Indeed, I've said dozens of times during this thread that there are many things that could be improved to deal with the issues facing the people that voted for Brexit. On migration alone, we already have the power to limit access to benefits. We have the power to remove EU migrants if they aren't working. We have the power to give more power locally to ensure they have the resources to respond to population changes. We have the power to take more regular checks of the population rather than relying on the census. All of these things are already within the power of the government, but they can't really go to the country and say "we could make things better, but you need to vote for a less crap version of us", so they instead pinned the blame on the EU.

So yes, do me a favor with the complexities.
 
Can you point to a single analysis of voter intentions and motivations where this is true Pete? You've tried to paint this picture of leave voters as brave adventurers numerous times and it isn't replicated in actual facts whatsoever. With your political persuasions I presume you'll get the reference, but leave voters aren't exactly the ones that would be heading to Galt's Gulch. You know?

It seems that many remainers, still retain a view that the silly uneducated leave voters are somehow inferior to the obviously far more intelligent and educated remain voter. This is insinuated and propagated, ad nauseam, by those who would wish to lead us back into the arms of the EU. It’s about time that those who believe in their own superiority, brought to bear their undoubted talents and wisdom and actively engaged in the process of leaving the EU as opposed to merely throwing stones....
 
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