Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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We all know it’s going to be tough, and I’ve said before, I’m more than happy to lose completely the 8% of our gdp that consists of the EU trade. But we will do some form of deal, we will develop additional opportunities, we will be better off and we will be free of this inward looking, bureaucracy that currently controls our lives......

Do you realise the pain and hardship that an 8% drop in GDP would bring with it?

But you'd be be "happy" with that scenario, yeah mate as your economically cushioned from it, you're retired, you're prepared to chuck our economy in the skip for some nonsense notion that the EU somehow 'controls our lives', it's utterly ludicrous
 
Do you realise the pain and hardship that an 8% drop in GDP would bring with it?

But you'd be be "happy" with that scenario, yeah mate as your economically cushioned from it, you're retired, you're prepared to chuck our economy in the skip for some nonsense notion that the EU somehow 'controls our lives', it's utterly ludicrous

We'd all be speaking German within a decade.
 
Do you realise the pain and hardship that an 8% drop in GDP would bring with it?

But you'd be be "happy" with that scenario, yeah mate as your economically cushioned from it, you're retired, you're prepared to chuck our economy in the skip for some nonsense notion that the EU somehow 'controls our lives', it's utterly ludicrous

A very good question. Exactly what would it do, and how long would it take to recover and replace ?.....
 
Of course, but perhaps our remainers shouldn’t be so happy about it. It really comes across as though you will be happy if the U.K. fails. We’ve moved on, Brexit is happening, we need people talking the country, it’s capabilities and it’s opportunities up rather than the incessant negativity we see from the privileged and the upset. We all know it’s going to be tough, and I’ve said before, I’m more than happy to lose completely the 8% of our gdp that consists of the EU trade. But we will do some form of deal, we will develop additional opportunities, we will be better off and we will be free of this inward looking, bureaucracy that currently controls our lives......

I haven't been in this thread for months as just found too frustrating - but it's interesting to revisit and see how leave zealots are happy with the ever changing goalposts.

During the referendum, no deal (economic suicide) was never mentioned as an option as a new deal would be ever so easy...

Now taking an 8% drop in GDP is fine.

It's crazy. Utterly crazy.

... and so incredibly selfish.
 
I haven't been in this thread for months as just found too frustrating - but it's interesting to revisit and see how leave zealots are happy with the ever changing goalposts.

During the referendum, no deal (economic suicide) was never mentioned as an option as a new deal would be ever so easy...

Now taking an 8% drop in GDP is fine.

It's crazy. Utterly crazy.

... and so incredibly selfish.

It isn’t going to happen though, so what’s the problem......
 
they might not 'allow' it but they would have to stop it if the people got the devolution/self determination bit between their teeth.
Not that I would wish it on anybody but in 'recent modern times' the Spanish have form for bloody civil war and armed repression at home. That's before you even get to Cortez
The EU might yet, over time fall apart internally due to the first Brexit domino...and who's to say it won't devolve further.
There has been a slow trend for bigger...but things move a lot quicker now.

What gets bigger can only get so big http://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/1/index.html

2000 years ago Rome hadn't peaked
1200 years ago England was a loose collection of regions, Wessex, Mercia etc
200 years ago The German State didn't exist, Nor Italy.
100 years ago The Geo-Political map of Europe was totally different.
50 years ago It was different again
25 years ago it changed again.
There are now Scottish, Welsh and NI 'pretendy parliaments' and with Nicola Krankie stirring the pot - who knows

5 years hence ?
25 years hence ??
50, 100, 200 ???

you think 100 yrs is a long time, my Nan was born the year Victoria died...it soon mounts up and flies by.

As McMillan said - events dear boy, events.

Edit; After years of slowly moving to 'free trade' Countries are starting to quietly (Australia) and not so (Trump) slap on tariffs and engage in economic and resourse protectionism.

Don't poo-poo it



You are right of course, nothing lasts forever......
 
Just had this arrive in my inbox:

The Department for Exiting the European Union (DExEU) responds to Committee’s letter regarding the impact of Brexit on UK science and research.


Robin Walker MP, the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, has responded to a letter from the Committee Chair. The Minister was asked to provide an update on issues relating to the impact of the Brexit on the science and research sector, including the regulation of clinical trials, access to EU research funding, and progress in designing an immigration system which reflects the international nature of science. The Minister’s response also notes that the Department is still considering whether to appoint a Chief Scientific Advisor for DExEU.


The Committee will pursue these issues and other topics of interest through an oral evidence session with Jo Johnson MP, Minister for Universities, Science, Research and Innovation to be held on 17 October. Further details will be announced shortly.


Robin Walker’s letter to the Committee can be read here.
 
Have you bought Nick Clegg's new book yet on how to reverse Brexit - it's amazing he is spouting the same guff that lost him his seat in the last election - also what the Lib dems preached where they now fill a mini bus instead of a taxi of MPs!
Bruce on about cliff edges leaving the EU where you around in the 1970's when Ted Heath had to pay a kings ransom for us to join?
As soon as we went into then the common market - { no transition mentioned then} prices soared in the shops - the commonwealth countries had stopped all our special trade deals on food etc .
purchase tax from 3% to 9% disappeared for 10 % VAT on a bigger majority of goods!
I remember my late mother , and father saying it was a big mistake then - we were being ripped off from day one by Europe - then followed the common agricultural policies which the French have thrived upon ever since - hence we had butter mountains, grain mountains, over production of wine - countries abroad were starving, and the common market created greed, and waste - nothing changes other than I'm alright Jack - that's how the present negotiations are going = self preservation for the EU -
The only favour General De Gaulle did for us he stopped us joining after all we had done for him and his beloved country in the war it was only when we were burdened with high joining fee, ironical they now want a high leaving fee when all those years ago they did not want us originally anyway!
Thats my recollection of it, and yes I voted to join then as the propaganda then to join was so spurious as the Brexit campaign to leave!


During the build up to joining the Common Market the economy grew all through 1972. When Heath took the UK into the Common Market in January 1973 and until the oil price shock in October 1973 the British economy continued to grow. This growth was the result of joining the Common Market as it provided an outlet for UK goods. Between 1971 and 1972 the Purchase tax was reduced from 45% to 25%.


Empire preference had served the UK well and allowed UK goods to dominate the Empire. So much so that the US drew up War Plan Red in the late 1920s and early 1930s, to provoke a war with the UK, by invading Canada, so as to defeat it and gain a larger foothold in the Empire. After the Second World War Empire preference had served Britain well and enabled the UK to export goods and build up its industry.


As Europe was on its' knees the UK economy grew sufficiently for McMillan to declare 'you've never had it so good' in 1957. Throughout the late 1950s and 1960s as the US's Marshall Plan kicked in, Europe's economy grew fast. The UK didn't want to join Europe as it was doing fine with Empire preference and US investment but as Europe grew the demand for goods grew but the UK was out of the club. Those in the Empire didn't have sufficient purchasing power to buy enough UK goods at the pace to keep the economy growing at the same rate as Europe. It was against this background that Heath took the UK into the Common Market so as to gain access to the European market. It was to replace one preference - the Empire, with another the Common Market. Which had at its heart the free movement of capital, services, goods and people.


The UK were prepared to ditch the Commonwealth so as to get into Europe with all the pitfalls. When the vote in 1975 came along Tony Benn and Enoch Powell were in the forefront of warning that the UK had lost democratic control over the sovereignty of parliament and giving it to Europe. Benn in particular was concerned about the loss of democracy. Political sovereignty was subdued for economic advantage. He was also worried about the right of an elected UK government to set out an economic policy that it was elected to do, which may be blocked by those in Europe. For instance state intervention for British industry, a similar argument today with the EU threatening to block the UK from supporting the fibre optic industry laying fast broadband. A result of the UK leaving the EU.


As long as the UK is inside the EU they turn a blind eye to this type of state intervention to industry and to grants to attract industry to the UK e.g. Japanese car makers, Siemens to Hull etc., but when the UK leaves the gloves will be off even more than they are now. Trade war moves are well and truly under way in the world with Trump's American first policy and this can only get more intense. I suspect BAE systems and Rolls Royce will be on Trumps radar.


Trade war tensions will effect UK/EU trade in goods and in particular financial services. Frankfurt are at the forefront Frankfurt steps up efforts to lure €1tn-a-day euro clearing from UK ... and this will damage the City of London, the backbone of the UK economy. Unlike in the 1970s when it was manufacturing, mostly British owned, that was the most prominent part of the economy. It is dog eat dog, no holds barred as can been seen from US action against Canadian owned Bombardier – a fellow Nafta member. And Trump’s noises about German cars and machinery exported to the US.


Moving to WTO tariffs will damage the car industry amongst others. The UK government may well get more tariff money from the EU than it has to pay out but this cannot be used to give the UK car industry a financial subsidy through corporation tax reduction or other means. As not only would this would be against WTO rules, it would have to apply to all industry, thereby leaving a large black hole in the Chancellors finances.

These negotiations should have been over by Christmas after the vote to leave. But the longer they do go on, the more uncertainty it is causing for UK PLC. Not good for investment and jobs.
 
During the build up to joining the Common Market the economy grew all through 1972. When Heath took the UK into the Common Market in January 1973 and until the oil price shock in October 1973 the British economy continued to grow. This growth was the result of joining the Common Market as it provided an outlet for UK goods. Between 1971 and 1972 the Purchase tax was reduced from 45% to 25%.


Empire preference had served the UK well and allowed UK goods to dominate the Empire. So much so that the US drew up War Plan Red in the late 1920s and early 1930s, to provoke a war with the UK, by invading Canada, so as to defeat it and gain a larger foothold in the Empire. After the Second World War Empire preference had served Britain well and enabled the UK to export goods and build up its industry.


As Europe was on its' knees the UK economy grew sufficiently for McMillan to declare 'you've never had it so good' in 1957. Throughout the late 1950s and 1960s as the US's Marshall Plan kicked in, Europe's economy grew fast. The UK didn't want to join Europe as it was doing fine with Empire preference and US investment but as Europe grew the demand for goods grew but the UK was out of the club. Those in the Empire didn't have sufficient purchasing power to buy enough UK goods at the pace to keep the economy growing at the same rate as Europe. It was against this background that Heath took the UK into the Common Market so as to gain access to the European market. It was to replace one preference - the Empire, with another the Common Market. Which had at its heart the free movement of capital, services, goods and people.


The UK were prepared to ditch the Commonwealth so as to get into Europe with all the pitfalls. When the vote in 1975 came along Tony Benn and Enoch Powell were in the forefront of warning that the UK had lost democratic control over the sovereignty of parliament and giving it to Europe. Benn in particular was concerned about the loss of democracy. Political sovereignty was subdued for economic advantage. He was also worried about the right of an elected UK government to set out an economic policy that it was elected to do, which may be blocked by those in Europe. For instance state intervention for British industry, a similar argument today with the EU threatening to block the UK from supporting the fibre optic industry laying fast broadband. A result of the UK leaving the EU.


As long as the UK is inside the EU they turn a blind eye to this type of state intervention to industry and to grants to attract industry to the UK e.g. Japanese car makers, Siemens to Hull etc., but when the UK leaves the gloves will be off even more than they are now. Trade war moves are well and truly under way in the world with Trump's American first policy and this can only get more intense. I suspect BAE systems and Rolls Royce will be on Trumps radar.


Trade war tensions will effect UK/EU trade in goods and in particular financial services. Frankfurt are at the forefront Frankfurt steps up efforts to lure €1tn-a-day euro clearing from UK ... and this will damage the City of London, the backbone of the UK economy. Unlike in the 1970s when it was manufacturing, mostly British owned, that was the most prominent part of the economy. It is dog eat dog, no holds barred as can been seen from US action against Canadian owned Bombardier – a fellow Nafta member. And Trump’s noises about German cars and machinery exported to the US.


Moving to WTO tariffs will damage the car industry amongst others. The UK government may well get more tariff money from the EU than it has to pay out but this cannot be used to give the UK car industry a financial subsidy through corporation tax reduction or other means. As not only would this would be against WTO rules, it would have to apply to all industry, thereby leaving a large black hole in the Chancellors finances.

These negotiations should have been over by Christmas after the vote to leave. But the longer they do go on, the more uncertainty it is causing for UK PLC. Not good for investment and jobs.
My post was from real life experience, not from a google inspired reply we voted OUT and if we have to leave on WTO rules so be it - you will see a big EU climb down as they will lose out more than us on tariffs as you put it - the way they are dictating terms shows them how pathetic they are wanting a divorce bill - we have clearly stated we will settle up on what we owe - end of and why should that come first? trade deal should have been first the latter at the end!
 
Do you realise the pain and hardship that an 8% drop in GDP would bring with it?

But you'd be be "happy" with that scenario, yeah mate as your economically cushioned from it, you're retired, you're prepared to chuck our economy in the skip for some nonsense notion that the EU somehow 'controls our lives', it's utterly ludicrous

I'm all right Jack is the British Dream May is on about
 
I haven't been in this thread for months as just found too frustrating - but it's interesting to revisit and see how leave zealots are happy with the ever changing goalposts.

During the referendum, no deal (economic suicide) was never mentioned as an option as a new deal would be ever so easy...

Now taking an 8% drop in GDP is fine.

It's crazy. Utterly crazy.

... and so incredibly selfish.
Really what planet where you living on?
the £8 million Gideon, and Cameron Brochure delivered through our door spelling out the doom , and gloom if we voted leave - the proposed emergency Budget if we dared to vote OUT!
The economy would fall over a cliff the very next day if we voted OUT
The propaganda from both sides was about even, personally I had seen it all before this time I got my vote right in voting OUT -
PM resigned then stated he would stay on =lies he landed a top earner as a after dinner speaker + he will have a PM pension!
Gideon could not accept the verdict left for another job to add to his other FIVE!
Corbyn who had half heartedly campaigned remain was almost ousted as opposition leader, and moves his views on a deal most weeks yet backed all Government policies for the signing of article 50 -
personally the gloom about us leaving on a no deal WTO rules does not bother me in the slightest as we will gain on tariffs, The EU is going to fail anyway so lets take the opportunity, and get out the cheapest way possible either deal or no deal if the EU want to play silly games!
 
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