Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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I'll try and spell it out Pete. You were complaining that the EU weren't gushing in their praise at May's speech. They explained, quite clearly that the principles in the speech but they needed to see a lot more detail before they can move on.

It's not hard to read between the lines that what May said in her speech is certainly not what Davis and his team have been delivering during the negotiations, as if they were on the same page then Barnier would have the details he requests.

The reality is that it's taken all of this time, and a number of quite humiliating reality checks for the Brexit trio to be sufficiently cuckolded to need May to outline a more realistic 'mission statement' in her speech.



The proof of the pudding is in the eating Pete. A8 nationals are so taken by what the government have said about migrants that net migration has plummeted to zero. They may not have been able to vote with a tick in a box, but they certainly seem to be voting with their feet.

It's a negotiation. Both the UK and the EU need to sort out the decoupling, yet even though the UK is putting forward proposals the EU just keeps saying 'more detail required' while putting nothing of their own forward. The UK is trying to move it forward, hence Mays speech, the EU have done nothing. It's no good saying that it's only happening because of Brexit either, we all know that, but the EU have to get their own house in order, either for a deal or for no deal. It is staggering that this so called super bureaucracy within the EU, with all these fantastic people who can negotiate trade deals, cannot work through the current proposals and put a trade deal together. But of course, we know that they can do this, but they just want the money and that is the only issue, how much money.

If A8 nationals wish to go back home or not come here at all, that is up to them. Those that are here have been given assurances, that as May says will be written into UK law, to guarantee their rights. Now, just for a change, what are the EU offering your fellow Britons who live in the EU ?........
 
What semantics. She raised it in her speech and has said there will be no borders......
No borders, so what's the solution? As no border or customs effectively means that NI remains part of the EU.....so we're not leaving as a collective group of 4 nations then, as NI is keeping single market access, free movement of people and is staying in the customs union.....

Back of a cig packet stuff, and sums up Brexit, all soundbites and waffle, with zero substance.
 
So is that it, from her whole speech, you can pick her up over an acknowledged error......if she said today is Wednesday you'd be trashing what she said........I thought we could stop the party politics now that we are well into the run up to leaving......

There are three strands the Tories agreed to talk about. One was citizens rights. What she said doesn't touch down with reality and shows the Tories are not to be trusted with citizens rights. Something the EU are quite right to pick up on considering it relates to EU citizens in the north of the island of Ireland.

The Tories couldn't even be trusted with a written document. As Amber Rudd riding roughshod over the UK courts rulings shows and was driven by political pandering. So when May says in her speech about 'trust' no one should believe her as the Tories are not to be trusted to abide by the UK courts. The only safe guarantee for EU citizens is recourse to the European Court of Justice.

From May's speech and the reality. The second part of three.

"For example, we have recognised from the outset there are unique issues to consider when it comes to Northern Ireland.

The UK government, the Irish government and the EU as a whole have been clear that through the process of our withdrawal we will protect progress made in Northern Ireland over recent years – and the lives and livelihoods that depend on this progress.

As part of this, we and the EU have committed to protecting the Belfast Agreement and the Common Travel Area and, looking ahead, we have both stated explicitly that we will not accept any physical infrastructure at the border.

We owe it to the people of Northern Ireland – and indeed to everyone on the island of Ireland - to see through these commitments".

What are the 'unique issues'? Not spelt out. Just waffle.

How is the UK 'protecting the Belfast Agreement and the Common Travel Area'? Again just hot air. The Good Friday Agreement and the Northern Ireland ACT 1998 directly contradicts Johnson, Davis, Fox, Ree Mogg, Duncan Smith's assertions that when the UK leaves the EU it will leave the single market and the customs union and the ECJ. Not true. Hope May has told the DUP that she doesn't want, 'physical infrastructure at the border'. The DUP are for a hard Brexit i.e. a hard border on the island of Ireland.

"The United Kingdom is leaving the European Union. We will no longer be members of its single market or its customs union. For we understand that the single market’s four freedoms are indivisible for our European friends". Again, not true as this cannot apply if there is not a 'physical infrastructure at the border'. Contradictory nonsense from May. She should say all along 'this applies to the UK except the north of the island of Ireland' But she daren't as it would bring down her government. No wonder the EU negotiators look on with bemused bewilderment.



"One way of approaching this question is to put forward a stark and unimaginative choice between two models: either something based on European Economic Area membership; or a traditional Free Trade Agreement, such as that the EU has recently negotiated with Canada.

....We can do so much better than this".

The government I lead is committed not only to protecting high standards, but strengthening them.

So I am optimistic about what we can achieve by finding a creative solution to a new economic relationship that can support prosperity for all our peoples".


What creative solutions? Again not spelled out.

"And as we have set out in a future partnership paper, when it comes to trade in goods, we will do everything we can to avoid friction at the border. But of course the regulatory issues are crucial".

Like the one proposed by Davis for the island of Ireland with technology that doesn't exist.

"This could not mean the European Court of Justice – or indeed UK courts - being the arbiter of disputes about the implementation of the agreement between the UK and the EU however.

It wouldn’t be right for one party’s court to have jurisdiction over the other. But I am confident we can find an appropriate mechanism for resolving disputes".

Firstly, how does not having the UK courts being the arbiter 'takes back controls'? It doesn't.

Secondly, May is begging for some other court as long as she can say 'it is not the ECJ'. But the ECJ will apply to the north of the island of Ireland. Again, May just sounds like it is the meander waffle from someone out of their depth.

The financial settlement. The third part of three. Can't find any reference except transition period.

"So during the implementation period access to one another’s markets should continue on current terms and Britain also should continue to take part in existing security measures. And I know businesses, in particular, would welcome the certainty this would provide".

"Some of the claims made on this issue are exaggerated and unhelpful and we can only resolve this as part of the settlement of all the issues I have been talking about today.

Still I do not want our partners to fear that they will need to pay more or receive less over the remainder of the current budget plan as a result of our decision to leave. The UK will honour commitments we have made during the period of our membership.

And as we move forwards, we will also want to continue working together in ways that promote the long-term economic development of our continent.

This includes continuing to take part in those specific policies and programmes which are greatly to the UK and the EU’s joint advantage, such as those that promote science, education and culture – and those that promote our mutual security.

And as I set out in my speech at Lancaster House, in doing so, we would want to make an ongoing contribution to cover our fair share of the costs involved".

How much the financial settlement will cost is not mentioned, as this would blow apart Johnson's £350 million per week - £17.5 billion per year claim. But it is more like she hasn't a clue how much the UK will pay.

So May does want to be part of some part of the EU and will pay for it. That will upset the Johnson's and Duncan Smith's of this world as Brexit was about leaving the EU and taking control back. No wonder Duncan Smith is hotting up up the civil war inside the Tory party.

'Leave party politics out of it'. It may have skipped your notice but it the Tories that are in power and messing up the negotiations. Party politics is central to their interpretation of what Brexit means. They used party politics in their attempted to gain political advantage by wrapping themselves in the Union Jack. It has backfired spectacularly to the detriment of the people of this country.
 


Trump has decided to up trade war against rivals and penalised Bombardier for Canadian and UK state aid to them. Now Fallon is threatening Boeing with defence contracts. The UK will find it increasingly difficult to get a trade agreement with the US as Trump puts 'America first'. and to do that has to drive rivals out of markets. It wont be long before Boeing focuses on Rolls Royce and how they conduct their trade business.

This is the worse possible news for the Tories as they have played politics with leaving the EU. The road ahead will be very bumpy as trade war rhetoric and actions is stepped up in the world.
 
Trump has decided to up trade war against rivals and penalised Bombardier for Canadian and UK state aid to them. Now Fallon is threatening Boeing with defence contracts. The UK will find it increasingly difficult to get a trade agreement with the US as Trump puts 'America first'. and to do that has to drive rivals out of markets. It wont be long before Boeing focuses on Rolls Royce and how they conduct their trade business.

This is the worse possible news for the Tories as they have played politics with leaving the EU. The road ahead will be very bumpy as trade war rhetoric and actions is stepped up in the world.

Anyone who thought having a protectionist in the white house was a good thing for the UK post brexit was either kidding themselves or just plain lying.
 
Trump has decided to up trade war against rivals and penalised Bombardier for Canadian and UK state aid to them. Now Fallon is threatening Boeing with defence contracts. The UK will find it increasingly difficult to get a trade agreement with the US as Trump puts 'America first'. and to do that has to drive rivals out of markets. It wont be long before Boeing focuses on Rolls Royce and how they conduct their trade business.

This is the worse possible news for the Tories as they have played politics with leaving the EU. The road ahead will be very bumpy as trade war rhetoric and actions is stepped up in the world.


Lets be honest. They all have.
 
Trump has decided to up trade war against rivals and penalised Bombardier for Canadian and UK state aid to them. Now Fallon is threatening Boeing with defence contracts. The UK will find it increasingly difficult to get a trade agreement with the US as Trump puts 'America first'. and to do that has to drive rivals out of markets. It wont be long before Boeing focuses on Rolls Royce and how they conduct their trade business.

This is the worse possible news for the Tories as they have played politics with leaving the EU. The road ahead will be very bumpy as trade war rhetoric and actions is stepped up in the world.
We are currently in the EU and the USA has imposed tarrifs, but it's a reason that brexit is bad?
 
A rationale for leaving the EU was that we would then be free to 'trade with the world', ie with countries like the US, who are clearly showing no signs of wanting to trade with anyone.
They are members of the WTO can't see them getting away with it to be honest Bruce, we could easily counter due to them putting money into Boeing via the defence budget.
Same result if we are in or out of the EU, we go to the WTO or do a deal that suits both parties.
I know we are on different sides on this subject( brexit)Bruce but it's turning into a shambles,they should stop posturing on both sides and get down to getting a decent workable deal between the UK and the EU.
 
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