Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
Status
Not open for further replies.
peteblue said:
I love people telling us how 'easy' we had it during the 50's and how everything has been given to us on a plate, while today's snowflakes are worried about leaving the EU......but, but, but we'll be on our own, there's 27 of them, we're doomed.......I'm glad my little granddaughter has more bottle than a few on here......
Click to expand...

wait, what are you actually trying to say here?

it sounds like "Brexit WILL be pointless and quite possibly catastrophic, but lets do it because us ol' timers have state-supplied homes and triple-locked pensions and for all our posturing are completely safe are man enough to take it"

so, a bit like Fight Club then?!
giphy.gif


well, that's obviously completely insane, but at least it's more coherent than the economic case for Brexit.

have to say, if the benefit generation really was as hard and manly as it imagines itself, it'd be able to manage its anxieties about the aging process much more gracefully ; )

can we all just admit now that there is NO economic rationale for doing this? that, for better or worse, it's really all about the baby boomers' spiritual and emotional angst? (since the above post already effectively concedes this...)

it takes a real man to find the courage to confront his demons. let it all out. we're here to help!
 
Ruairi77 said:
Interesting read on the NI/IRL border
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...on-the-irish-border-the-uks-brexit-blind-spot
Click to expand...

Shows that the Tories don't even know what is going on in a part of the UK and what agreement has been signed and what is in them. The Irish border issue has exposed their bullying and incompetence. Between the vote to leave and invoking Article 50, when the island of Ireland cropped up the UK government attempted to bully the Irish out of the EU. Using the rhetoric that 'they need us more than we need them' (due to trade imbalances), the Tory government demanded that the Irish will have to control EU citizens, from getting to the north of the Ireland (i.e the UK), by having a border in the Republic. It didn't matter that this was against one of the four freedoms enshrined in the EU, and that the UK demand would have effectively meant the Irish would have to leave the EU. But it did satisfy the thorny issue of 'controlling EU migration to the UK'.

When the Irish politely told them to do one the Tories threw their dummy out of the pram and had a hissy fit threatening a 'hard border' - which would damage trade between the north and south of the island of Ireland. Very much using the 'they need us more than we need them' rhetoric to attempt to get their way. It didn't work and it was pointed out by the Irish that this goes against the Good Friday Agreement - with free movement of people fundamentally enshrined in the agreement. This 'negotiation' stance was the main reason the Irish demanded that the island of Ireland issue was to be on the agenda for the first meeting.

And as was evident from that first meeting between Davis's and Barnier's negotiating teams. The Tories hadn't a clue what was in the Good Friday Agreement and the only thing they proposed was 'tagging' goods with a not existent 'technology' 'yet to be invented' and sidestepped the issue of free movement of people. Barnier asked the Tories to come back with proposals that was based on reality of the Good Friday Agreement. The Irish/EU had given the Tories every opportunity to put forward realistic proposals but they have failed miserably.

The Tories continued to be in a mess over their position on the island of Ireland issue, the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing.

Barnier had to step in again and finally, a few weeks ago on the island of Ireland issue the Tories were forced to clearly stated that there will be free movement of people as enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement. And no hard border - with free movement of people, goods, capital and services. How that special case develops will be part of the trade negotiations but what is clear, the north will remain in the single market and customs union. In other words, a part of the UK will fully remain in the EU. It has took the Tories nearly a year to wake up and smell the coffee and put forward proposals based on reality and agreement. However, the special status will not only give ammunition to the SNP’s campaign for special status for Scotland it will also damage the Tories politically because the DUP are fundamentally against special status for the island of Ireland and against the north being in a single market and customs union with the south. The European Court of Justice - again enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement - will still be involved in protecting Irish citizens that reside in the north, something the DUP are fundamentally against.

This has been a painful exercise for Davis and has made him look bumbling and idiotic at times, and as far removed from being 'imaginative and flexible' as can be.
 
hullefc said:
Shows that the Tories don't even know what is going on in a part of the UK and what agreement has been signed and what is in them. The Irish border issue has exposed their bullying and incompetence. Between the vote to leave and invoking Article 50, when the island of Ireland cropped up the UK government attempted to bully the Irish out of the EU. Using the rhetoric that 'they need us more than we need them' (due to trade imbalances), the Tory government demanded that the Irish will have to control EU citizens, from getting to the north of the Ireland (i.e the UK), by having a border in the Republic. It didn't matter that this was against one of the four freedoms enshrined in the EU, and that the UK demand would have effectively meant the Irish would have to leave the EU. But it did satisfy the thorny issue of 'controlling EU migration to the UK'.

When the Irish politely told them to do one the Tories threw their dummy out of the pram and had a hissy fit threatening a 'hard border' - which would damage trade between the north and south of the island of Ireland. Very much using the 'they need us more than we need them' rhetoric to attempt to get their way. It didn't work and it was pointed out by the Irish that this goes against the Good Friday Agreement - with free movement of people fundamentally enshrined in the agreement. This 'negotiation' stance was the main reason the Irish demanded that the island of Ireland issue was to be on the agenda for the first meeting.

And as was evident from that first meeting between Davis's and Barnier's negotiating teams. The Tories hadn't a clue what was in the Good Friday Agreement and the only thing they proposed was 'tagging' goods with a not existent 'technology' 'yet to be invented' and sidestepped the issue of free movement of people. Barnier asked the Tories to come back with proposals that was based on reality of the Good Friday Agreement. The Irish/EU had given the Tories every opportunity to put forward realistic proposals but they have failed miserably.

The Tories continued to be in a mess over their position on the island of Ireland issue, the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing.

Barnier had to step in again and finally, a few weeks ago on the island of Ireland issue the Tories were forced to clearly stated that there will be free movement of people as enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement. And no hard border - with free movement of people, goods, capital and services. How that special case develops will be part of the trade negotiations but what is clear, the north will remain in the single market and customs union. In other words, a part of the UK will fully remain in the EU. It has took the Tories nearly a year to wake up and smell the coffee and put forward proposals based on reality and agreement. However, the special status will not only give ammunition to the SNP’s campaign for special status for Scotland it will also damage the Tories politically because the DUP are fundamentally against special status for the island of Ireland and against the north being in a single market and customs union with the south. The European Court of Justice - again enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement - will still be involved in protecting Irish citizens that reside in the north, something the DUP are fundamentally against.

This has been a painful exercise for Davis and has made him look bumbling and idiotic at times, and as far removed from being 'imaginative and flexible' as can be.
Click to expand...

great post. With the DUP in power, the conservatives have tied themselves up in knots.
 
bobbydigital said:
This all gets a bit tedious if you are going to change what I say then argue against that. You need to understand there is a difference between majority and all, biggest and sole etc.

Anyway, appreciate point 7 and didn't mean to offend. The simple minds easily amused bit was a mere tongue in cheek response to you saying it amuses you that people who don't have enough "noous" can't understand your points. This amused me a lot, so let's all be amused and enjoy the weekend champ.
Click to expand...

Bobby,
Like you, I will be earnestly hoping Citeh knock in 4 or 5 early afternoon tomorrow. Then those overblown Lilywhites get smashed at Goodison... ;)
 
hullefc said:
Shows that the Tories don't even know what is going on in a part of the UK and what agreement has been signed and what is in them. The Irish border issue has exposed their bullying and incompetence. Between the vote to leave and invoking Article 50, when the island of Ireland cropped up the UK government attempted to bully the Irish out of the EU. Using the rhetoric that 'they need us more than we need them' (due to trade imbalances), the Tory government demanded that the Irish will have to control EU citizens, from getting to the north of the Ireland (i.e the UK), by having a border in the Republic. It didn't matter that this was against one of the four freedoms enshrined in the EU, and that the UK demand would have effectively meant the Irish would have to leave the EU. But it did satisfy the thorny issue of 'controlling EU migration to the UK'.

When the Irish politely told them to do one the Tories threw their dummy out of the pram and had a hissy fit threatening a 'hard border' - which would damage trade between the north and south of the island of Ireland. Very much using the 'they need us more than we need them' rhetoric to attempt to get their way. It didn't work and it was pointed out by the Irish that this goes against the Good Friday Agreement - with free movement of people fundamentally enshrined in the agreement. This 'negotiation' stance was the main reason the Irish demanded that the island of Ireland issue was to be on the agenda for the first meeting.

And as was evident from that first meeting between Davis's and Barnier's negotiating teams. The Tories hadn't a clue what was in the Good Friday Agreement and the only thing they proposed was 'tagging' goods with a not existent 'technology' 'yet to be invented' and sidestepped the issue of free movement of people. Barnier asked the Tories to come back with proposals that was based on reality of the Good Friday Agreement. The Irish/EU had given the Tories every opportunity to put forward realistic proposals but they have failed miserably.

The Tories continued to be in a mess over their position on the island of Ireland issue, the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing.

Barnier had to step in again and finally, a few weeks ago on the island of Ireland issue the Tories were forced to clearly stated that there will be free movement of people as enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement. And no hard border - with free movement of people, goods, capital and services. How that special case develops will be part of the trade negotiations but what is clear, the north will remain in the single market and customs union. In other words, a part of the UK will fully remain in the EU. It has took the Tories nearly a year to wake up and smell the coffee and put forward proposals based on reality and agreement. However, the special status will not only give ammunition to the SNP’s campaign for special status for Scotland it will also damage the Tories politically because the DUP are fundamentally against special status for the island of Ireland and against the north being in a single market and customs union with the south. The European Court of Justice - again enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement - will still be involved in protecting Irish citizens that reside in the north, something the DUP are fundamentally against.

This has been a painful exercise for Davis and has made him look bumbling and idiotic at times, and as far removed from being 'imaginative and flexible' as can be.
Click to expand...
Great post.

The Leave vote has never had a second thought for the Irish border and their general incompetence is now being laid bare.
 
peteblue said:
Oh I agree with that. I never once heard it mentioned, and I for one will admit I didn't give it a second thought....
Click to expand...

So then which part of this: "The Leave vote has never had a second thought for the Irish border and their general incompetence is now being laid bare" is unfair?
 
peteblue said:
The incompetence bit......
Click to expand...

Right.

So a campaign almost entirely based on the vague promise of "securing our borders" is still not incompetent even though, as you yourself admit, its leaders and followers alike failed to even consider THE MOST BASIC DETAILS ABOUT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THE UK'S MOST IMPORTANT AND SENSITIVE BORDER.
 
abelard said:
Right.

So a campaign almost entirely based on the vague promise of "securing our borders" is still not incompetent even though, as you yourself admit, its leaders and followers alike failed to even consider THE MOST BASIC DETAILS ABOUT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THE UK'S MOST IMPORTANT AND SENSITIVE BORDER.
Click to expand...

Sounds incompetent to me ;)
 
All the EU had to do was remove roaming phone charges...

roaming-1059191.jpg


So now the telecoms companies are using it as a way to increase everyone's charges.

Now that's incompetent.........
 
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