Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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Interesting going back through and reading the above, lads. For the internet, the level of chat is actually quite respectable and that's good. Anyway, I actually saw this on twitter this morning...



61% of leaves voters tell YouGov that significant damage to the economy a price worth paying for Brexit, 34% of Remain votes also told YouGov that economic harm is a price worth paying to avert Brexit. 18% said family members losing jobs was worth it to avert it and 20% said long-term economic damage worth it to teach Leave voters a lesson.

The reason I bring this up is that it's now become clear that for some people Brexit has become more than a referendum on leaving the EU. It appears to be an excuse to attack the other side of the fence for some, no matter what the cost might be. I think most of us have moved on and want both the UK and the EU to prosper, but it's evident that some people are still acting like utter tits when it comes to this debate. Smh.
 
Hahaha, I know it's probably fake news but apparently the European Medicines Agency, based in London but which the EU insists is transferred to somewhere as yet undecided by the EU, have suggested that 75% of the 800+ staff have said that they don't want to move out of London. MP's have suggested that we offer them employment in any new U.K. Medicines Agency........meanwhile the EU have taken bids from about 19 EU countries who all want it.........
 
In other news, the EU still doesn't know what to do about the British 70+ MEP seats in the EU Parliament. Apparently there are about 70 odd different proposals, none of which appear to yet be acceptable.......
 
In other news, the EU still doesn't know what to do about the British 70+ MEP seats in the EU Parliament. Apparently there are about 70 odd different proposals, none of which appear to yet be acceptable.......
Why does it concern you or us? Let them do what they want,
 
EU foreign ministers have agreed to impose restrictions on the export and supply of inflatable boats and outboard motors to Libya in an effort to stop human trafficking.

“EU member states will now have a legal basis to prevent the export or supply of these goods to Libya where there are reasonable grounds to believe that they will be used by people smugglers and human traffickers,” the ministers said in a statement after talks in Brussels.

The restrictions will also apply to boats and motors which are passing through the EU on their way to Libya, but the export or sales of these goods to fishermen will not be restricted.

In the first six months of 2017, some 85,000 people who departed from Northern Africa arrived on Italy’s shores, figures by EU border agency Frontex show.

These people are really on the boil............looks like Libyan fishermen will make a few bob too........
 
Cross-party group of MPs hope to force a vote on UK staying in EEA
Kinnock, Umunna and Alexander look at working with Tories to try to force PM to yield on post-Brexit transitional period



Heidi Alexander says she is ‘left wondering whether the chancellor has actually read the EU withdrawal bill’. Photograph: Gareth Fuller/PA
Rowena Mason

A group of Labour and Conservative MPs are hoping to force a vote on whether the UK should stay in the European Economic Area for at least a few years after Brexit, in the belief that it may be possible to force Theresa May to yield on the issue.

MPs campaigning for a softer Brexit are increasingly concerned that the government’s EU withdrawal bill will not allow the UK to stay in the European Economic Area even temporarily before the final deal with the EU comes into force in around 2022.

But Labour MPs such as Stephen Kinnock, Chuka Umunna and Heidi Alexander are considering ways to work with some Tories to keep the UK in EEA, at least for a transitional period, when the bill comes to the House of Commons in early September. One option would be for a backbencher to table an amendment asking the UK to remain in the EEA during the post-Brexit transition.

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One Conservative MP fighting against hard Brexit told the Guardian it could be the biggest battle of the EU withdrawal bill and that there was a chance of defeating the government unless it gave more guarantees about the transitional period.

No 10 has ruled out staying in the EEA, saying exit will happen automatically at the point of Brexit, and rejected an “off the shelf” arrangement based on EEA membership for the transitional period. Members of the EEA are part of the EU’s single market; existing non-EU members include Norway and Iceland.

However, Philip Hammond, the chancellor, is known to believe there is no time for the UK to negotiate a bespoke agreement with the EU and has told businesses it would be best to have an off-the-shelf arrangement, which would mirror the advantages of the single market and largely persist with free movement.

May is particularly vulnerable to defeat because it is understood that Labour wants to keep its option open on the issue and not rule out any routes that could avoid a cliff-edge Brexit in March 2019.

In a sign that there is common ground between Labour and some of the Tories pushing for a softer Brexit, Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, told the Guardian that he was planning to table amendments to the EU withdrawal bill to “ensure it is possible to achieve transitional arrangements on the same basic terms – including the single market and the customs union”.

He said the legislation in its current form was not acceptable, partly because it “dismantles the apparatus of the single market and the customs union and it extinguishes any role for the European court of justice”.

Any alliance between Labour and Conservatives pushing for a soft Brexit would be dangerous for May, as her majority with the DUP has been slashed to 13. This means that as few as seven Tory rebels could spell a defeat for the government when the bill is debated in the Commons early in September, although they would be more likely to back an amendment tabled by a Labour backbencher than one of Jeremy Corbyn’s frontbench team.

If MPs voted in favour of staying in the EEA, the government would still argue as a point of law that the UK would necessarily leave at the EEA at the point of exit from the EU. However, it could choose to try to negotiate to remain in the EEA at an international level if parliament had made its wishes clear.

Supporters of staying in the EEA at least temporarily believe it is the best model for providing certainty for businesses without EU membership.

The idea was was backed on Tuesday by William Hague, the former foreign secretary, who said there was “clear potential for Brexit to become the occasion of the greatest economic, diplomatic and constitutional muddle in the modern history of the UK, with unknowable consequences for the country, the government and the Brexit project itself”.

He said Hammond’s plan for a transitional period of up to three years after March 2019 along the lines of an existing off-the-shelf model, such as staying in the European Economic Area, was the best way of trying to rescue Brexit.

Any suggestion that the UK could stay in the European Economic Area is also fiercely rejected by the hardest Brexit supporters. Steve Baker, the Brexit minister, said last month “it was like putting blood in the water to even talk about the EEA”.

But it is legally uncertain whether the UK is able to leave the EEA without the permission of parliament, after the high court ruled this year that it was too soon to make a judgment. As recently as March, David Davis, the Brexit secretary, said it was likely that parliament would have to have a say on any changes to the European Economic Area Act 1993, but since the election, there may now be no majority for exiting the EEA.

The official government position is that the UK will leave the EEA automatically when it leaves the EU, but a Whitehall source told the Guardian that view is not shared by all the government’s lawyers or ministers. In a plea for cross-party backing, Kinnock said: “The EEA is a well-established and well understood arrangement that allows us to leave the EU by walking calmly over a bridge rather than leaping recklessly off a cliff edge.”

Alexander said she was also “left wondering whether the chancellor has actually read the EU withdrawal bill”. “He might fancy the idea of staying in the EEA for a transition period, but the text of the government’s bill seeks to [dismantle] the EEA Act of 1993,” she added.

A spokesman for the Department for Exiting the EU said: “We have repeatedly made clear that we will not be members of the EEA after exit. The UK is a member of the EEA by virtue of our membership of the EU.

“Therefore, when we leave the EU, we will no longer be a member of the EEA. The purpose of the repeal bill is to create a functioning statute book. It does not provide the process for the UK to leave the EEA.”
 
Cross-party group of MPs hope to force a vote on UK staying in EEA
Kinnock, Umunna and Alexander look at working with Tories to try to force PM to yield on post-Brexit transitional period



Heidi Alexander says she is ‘left wondering whether the chancellor has actually read the EU withdrawal bill’. Photograph: Gareth Fuller/PA
Rowena Mason

A group of Labour and Conservative MPs are hoping to force a vote on whether the UK should stay in the European Economic Area for at least a few years after Brexit, in the belief that it may be possible to force Theresa May to yield on the issue.

MPs campaigning for a softer Brexit are increasingly concerned that the government’s EU withdrawal bill will not allow the UK to stay in the European Economic Area even temporarily before the final deal with the EU comes into force in around 2022.

But Labour MPs such as Stephen Kinnock, Chuka Umunna and Heidi Alexander are considering ways to work with some Tories to keep the UK in EEA, at least for a transitional period, when the bill comes to the House of Commons in early September. One option would be for a backbencher to table an amendment asking the UK to remain in the EEA during the post-Brexit transition.

AdvertisementHide

One Conservative MP fighting against hard Brexit told the Guardian it could be the biggest battle of the EU withdrawal bill and that there was a chance of defeating the government unless it gave more guarantees about the transitional period.

No 10 has ruled out staying in the EEA, saying exit will happen automatically at the point of Brexit, and rejected an “off the shelf” arrangement based on EEA membership for the transitional period. Members of the EEA are part of the EU’s single market; existing non-EU members include Norway and Iceland.

However, Philip Hammond, the chancellor, is known to believe there is no time for the UK to negotiate a bespoke agreement with the EU and has told businesses it would be best to have an off-the-shelf arrangement, which would mirror the advantages of the single market and largely persist with free movement.

May is particularly vulnerable to defeat because it is understood that Labour wants to keep its option open on the issue and not rule out any routes that could avoid a cliff-edge Brexit in March 2019.

In a sign that there is common ground between Labour and some of the Tories pushing for a softer Brexit, Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, told the Guardian that he was planning to table amendments to the EU withdrawal bill to “ensure it is possible to achieve transitional arrangements on the same basic terms – including the single market and the customs union”.

He said the legislation in its current form was not acceptable, partly because it “dismantles the apparatus of the single market and the customs union and it extinguishes any role for the European court of justice”.

Any alliance between Labour and Conservatives pushing for a soft Brexit would be dangerous for May, as her majority with the DUP has been slashed to 13. This means that as few as seven Tory rebels could spell a defeat for the government when the bill is debated in the Commons early in September, although they would be more likely to back an amendment tabled by a Labour backbencher than one of Jeremy Corbyn’s frontbench team.

If MPs voted in favour of staying in the EEA, the government would still argue as a point of law that the UK would necessarily leave at the EEA at the point of exit from the EU. However, it could choose to try to negotiate to remain in the EEA at an international level if parliament had made its wishes clear.

Supporters of staying in the EEA at least temporarily believe it is the best model for providing certainty for businesses without EU membership.

The idea was was backed on Tuesday by William Hague, the former foreign secretary, who said there was “clear potential for Brexit to become the occasion of the greatest economic, diplomatic and constitutional muddle in the modern history of the UK, with unknowable consequences for the country, the government and the Brexit project itself”.

He said Hammond’s plan for a transitional period of up to three years after March 2019 along the lines of an existing off-the-shelf model, such as staying in the European Economic Area, was the best way of trying to rescue Brexit.

Any suggestion that the UK could stay in the European Economic Area is also fiercely rejected by the hardest Brexit supporters. Steve Baker, the Brexit minister, said last month “it was like putting blood in the water to even talk about the EEA”.

But it is legally uncertain whether the UK is able to leave the EEA without the permission of parliament, after the high court ruled this year that it was too soon to make a judgment. As recently as March, David Davis, the Brexit secretary, said it was likely that parliament would have to have a say on any changes to the European Economic Area Act 1993, but since the election, there may now be no majority for exiting the EEA.

The official government position is that the UK will leave the EEA automatically when it leaves the EU, but a Whitehall source told the Guardian that view is not shared by all the government’s lawyers or ministers. In a plea for cross-party backing, Kinnock said: “The EEA is a well-established and well understood arrangement that allows us to leave the EU by walking calmly over a bridge rather than leaping recklessly off a cliff edge.”

Alexander said she was also “left wondering whether the chancellor has actually read the EU withdrawal bill”. “He might fancy the idea of staying in the EEA for a transition period, but the text of the government’s bill seeks to [dismantle] the EEA Act of 1993,” she added.

A spokesman for the Department for Exiting the EU said: “We have repeatedly made clear that we will not be members of the EEA after exit. The UK is a member of the EEA by virtue of our membership of the EU.

“Therefore, when we leave the EU, we will no longer be a member of the EEA. The purpose of the repeal bill is to create a functioning statute book. It does not provide the process for the UK to leave the EEA.”

Dear god, can these people not let it go, we are leaving the EU......
 
Dear god, can these people not let it go, we are leaving the EU......

As you probably actually know, the article covers a debate on whether or not, and how soon, to leave the EEA.

NOT the EU.

"52% of the population voted to renounce gravity. WHY WAS IT NOT ALREADY IMPLEMENTED IMMEDIATELY?!?!?!?!?"
 
As you probably actually know, the article covers a debate on whether or not, and how soon, to leave the EEA.

NOT the EU.

"52% of the population voted to renounce gravity. WHY WAS IT NOT ALREADY IMPLEMENTED IMMEDIATELY?!?!?!?!?"

The EEA still requires the 'four freedoms' and European law. It's council consists of EFTA and the EU. So to remain, we would also have to join EFTA and again be controlled by EU laws and rules and have to accept the 'four freedoms' in which case we may as well have remained in the EU....but that's the point isn't it.......
 
The EEA still requires the 'four freedoms' and European law. It's council consists of EFTA and the EU. So to remain, we would also have to join EFTA and again be controlled by EU laws and rules and have to accept the 'four freedoms' in which case we may as well have remained in the EU....but that's the point isn't it.......

Works for Norway.

And I don't recall any vote on leaving the EEA.

If Brexit, at least let it be pointless, rather than suicidal.
 
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