Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back on topic! Today's meeting of MEPs showed us what we are up against. In the words of Nigel Farage they are a Mafia gang, using threats, blackmail and extortion. I am left wondering when the penny will drop. They don't seem to realise that they are dealing with Great Britain, the only country along with tiny Malta to resist the German subjucation of Europe. I am convinced that people who have been rescued by another country have 2 weeks of gratitude then hate their liberators. It's all about shame, the knowledge that they didn't have the balls to fight but had to rely on someone else to come to their rescue.

When addressing a topic one knows absolutely nothing about, use wikipedia to do a bit of back of cigarette packet research.

Here is one I prepared a little earlier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-occupied_Europe

Portugal
Spain
Iceland
Ireland
Sweden
Switzerland
Malta
UK

You guys never thanked the Russians properly for saving you. And you dont seem to have too much shame about it.

Either way, I admire the rise of neo-fascism in the UK and the way Angela Merkel is fighting it. She reminds me a bit of a human version of Thatcher, without the worms.
 
When addressing a topic one knows absolutely nothing about, use wikipedia to do a bit of back of cigarette packet research.

Here is one I prepared a little earlier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-occupied_Europe

Portugal
Spain
Iceland
Ireland
Sweden
Switzerland
Malta
UK

You guys never thanked the Russians properly for saving you. And you dont seem to have too much shame about it.

Either way, I admire the rise of neo-fascism in the UK and the way Angela Merkel is fighting it. She reminds me a bit of a human version of Thatcher, without the worms.

As you admit you know nothing about it, it may be best to try another thread.....

Edit, apologies, that was a bad response. The other countries you mention though were mostly non combatants and neutral. The Russians did not save us, but they would admit that our Russian conveys certainly saved them. We all did our bit but I have absolutely no admiration for Angela Merkel who completely screwed up EU immigration.....
 
Last edited:
When addressing a topic one knows absolutely nothing about, use wikipedia to do a bit of back of cigarette packet research.

Here is one I prepared a little earlier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-occupied_Europe

Portugal
Spain
Iceland
Ireland
Sweden
Switzerland

Malta
UK

You guys never thanked the Russians properly for saving you. And you dont seem to have too much shame about it.

Either way, I admire the rise of neo-fascism in the UK and the way Angela Merkel is fighting it. She reminds me a bit of a human version of Thatcher, without the worms.
being neutral normally saves you getting occupied .
 
When addressing a topic one knows absolutely nothing about, use wikipedia to do a bit of back of cigarette packet research.

Here is one I prepared a little earlier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-occupied_Europe

Portugal
Spain
Iceland
Ireland
Sweden
Switzerland
Malta
UK

You guys never thanked the Russians properly for saving you. And you dont seem to have too much shame about it.

Either way, I admire the rise of neo-fascism in the UK and the way Angela Merkel is fighting it. She reminds me a bit of a human version of Thatcher, without the worms.
You're right. You do know nothing about it all those countries save the UK and Malta were neutral, I.E not resisting facism, in fact Spain sent volunteers to fight the Soviets.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Division
Iceland was kind of involved due to being a sort of Danish colony before being occupied and used as a base by the allies.
You're most welcome.
 
Not with regards to this, but in other matters yes.

I would likewise encourage you to question your own beliefs - specifically whether you think its reasonable to believe that the US Government would have entirely faked a jet crash, suborned dozens if not hundreds of witnesses, erased (or invented and then erased) fifty people from existence, planted fake evidence, created fake radio traffic and video and fitted it in exactly to a sequence of other spectacular fakes hundreds of miles away.

Did they shoot the aircraft down? Perhaps. Invented some technical means to bring it down? It is possible, I suppose. Faked it entirely? Pretty sure that is going to be complete nonsense.


I don't need to question my own beliefs. But I do apply the research techniques that I have applied for close on 40 years, and interrogation techniques that I applied during my main working years in Government service. Interrogation in the sense of starting from the point of questioning everything and believing nothing, and then applying the legal tenet of 'He who asserts must prove'. Let me give you one example below - you can check it via many interviews with VERY experienced pilots on Youtube.

Take the jet airliner that allegedly flew into the Pentagon. Now this airliner allegedly hit the Pentagon at 'nought feet' for quite some distance before slamming into the side of the Pentagon. It also flew at quite a considerable speed according to the official line. Now there is a critical speed above which an aircraft cannot fly a 'nought feet', which is explained by experienced airline pilots in the vids. They know what they are talking about - they've been there and done it with flying airliners. We are also asked to believe that an individual who has only previously flown a light aircraft (Cessna type) for a small number of hours suddenly gets into the cockpit of a huge airliner, flies it perfectly to the target and then hits that target at 'nought feet'. It simply lacks any kind of real credibility. Then there is the size of the hole in the wall of the Pentagon. An airliner the size of that claimed would leave an entry hole far in excess of that shown following the hole left by whatever caused the hole in the first place. That hole was not caused by a massive airliner. You think there is no cover-up? Why were vital seconds missing from the only CCTV footage of the couple of seconds or so before impact? Where is the massive wreckage from the impact - it would not all be 'vapourised' as a result of the fire caused by the impact. Where are the outer wings? Where is the complete rear section of the aircraft?

All of the above paragraph is simply the starting point of enquiring about the incident. That is what is required, not blind acceptance of what is put out by the US Government.

Your second paragraph is EXACTLY the concerns that should be raised, in conjunction with considering my above paragraph. If you don't believe that a Government is capable of such things as you mention in your second paragraph, go check out what the US Government were going to do to provoke a war against Cuba in the early 1960s - it was called 'Operation Northwoods': http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/northwoods.html

Please understand that I am not seeking to provoke argument with you, but to perhaps show that things are not always as they seem, in response earlier today to the study that Bruce put up a page or so back. It is all quite fascinating...
 
Not a lots changed really.....

2042px-World_War_II_in_Europe%2C_1942.svg.png
 
Back on topic! Today's meeting of MEPs showed us what we are up against. In the words of Nigel Farage they are a Mafia gang, using threats, blackmail and extortion. I am left wondering when the penny will drop. They don't seem to realise that they are dealing with Great Britain, the only country along with tiny Malta to resist the German subjucation of Europe. I am convinced that people who have been rescued by another country have 2 weeks of gratitude then hate their liberators. It's all about shame, the knowledge that they didn't have the balls to fight but had to rely on someone else to come to their rescue.

Ah, I love living vicariously through the deeds of people who did brave things 70+ years ago, that I have next to no connection with, and who are nearly all no longer with us. I think doing so makes my life and my own deeds full and virtuous.
 
LSE have an interesting analysis of the hopes of economic progress under Brexit. The path to this goal will, it is said, be clear once the UK leaves. In particular:

  • the UK will be able to make its own trade deals and become a great global trading nation;
  • the UK can develop a less restrictive regulatory framework than that imposed by the EU;
  • industries such as manufacturing, fisheries and agriculture will revive once the country is no longer ‘tethered to the corpse’ of the EU;
  • the post-referendum devaluation will provide a boost for exporters.
"In relation to each of these claims, there is plenty of helpful evidence from economic history. After all, the UK was the first nation to embrace a global trading role. As Keynes pointed out in a famous passage, in 1914:

The inhabitant of London could order by telephone, sipping his morning tea in bed, the various products of the whole earth, in such quantity as he might see fit, and reasonably expect their early delivery upon his doorstep; he could at the same moment and by the same means adventure his wealth in the natural resources and new enterprises of any quarter of the world, and share, without exertion or even trouble, in their prospective fruits and advantages…

Yet, despite this background, and despite the economically advantageous legacies of Empire, the UK spent the period between 1961 and 1973 making increasingly desperate attempts to join a (then much smaller) Common Market. British policymakers were initially dismissive of the European Community. Exports to the Six were thought less important than trade with the Commonwealth. Britain’s initial response was to establish EFTA as a rival free trade area. However, it soon became apparent that this arrangement was lopsided: Britain was part of a free trade area with a population of 89m (including its own 51m), but stood outside the EEC’s tariff walls and population of 170m. Will the 2020s be different from the 1960s? In any event, ‘free trade’ is an elusive concept. As John Biffen, a Tory Trade Minister in the Thatcher government (and no friend of the EU), acknowledged, free trade has never existed ‘outside a textbook’.

As regards decoupling from EU regulations, the UK was, of course, completely free to devise its own regulatory framework prior to accession to the EU in 1973. Nonetheless, in this period, much of the current labour market structure, such as protection against unfair dismissal and redundancy, was enacted. EU regulations, such as the Social Chapter, have complemented, not undermined, this domestic framework. In any event, does the evidence suggest that a mature economy, such as the UK, will be able to establish a more rapid rate of growth with a looser regulatory framework? The obvious comparisons in this respect are the developed North American and Japanese economies. The data suggests that the UK has performed extremely well within the EU framework.

Table 1. GDP per capita (current US$)
Table-Holding-Brexiteers-to-Account.png


Source: World Bank
Of course, much higher rates of growth have recently been achieved in developing economies such as China and India. But it cannot seriously be argued that an economy like the UK, which underwent an industrial revolution in the eighteenth century, can achieve rates of progress comparable to economies that are industrialising now. The whole course of economic history shows that mature economies have much slower rates of growth and that the increases achieved by the USA and the UK over the last few decades are close to optimum performance.

The maturity of the UK economy is also germane to arguments suggesting that it will be possible to revive industries that have suffered long term decline, such as manufacturing, agriculture and fisheries. After all, one consequence of the UK’s early start in manufacturing is that primary industries declined first and most rapidly here. Economic historians have been pointing out since the 1950s that in advanced economies the working population inevitably drifts from agriculture to manufacturing and then from manufacturing to services. In 1973, the American sociologist Daniel Bell greeted the arrival of the post-industrial society. He pointed out that the American economy was the first in the world in which more than 60 per cent of the population were engaged in services, and that this trend was deepening in the USA and elsewhere. Brexit is scarcely likely to reverse these very long-term developments.

The British economy has also had considerable past experience of enforced devaluation (for example in 1931, 1949 and 1967). Research following the 1967 devaluation suggested that a falling pound gave only a temporary fillip to the trade balance, whilst delivering a permanent increase in inflation. Over the same period the West German economy performed extremely strongly, despite a constantly appreciating currency.

Finally, one may question whether the UK can achieve an economic miracle whilst, at the same time, pursuing a very restrictive approach to immigration. Successful economies tend to be extremely open to outsiders, who are both a cause and a consequence of growth. After all, in the pre-1914 golden age to which Keynes referred, there were no controls at all, and the British businessman ‘could secure forthwith, if he wished it, cheap and comfortable means of transit to any country or climate without passport or other formality…and could then proceed abroad to foreign quarters…and would consider himself greatly aggrieved and much surprised at the least interference’. Our putative partners in trade deals are not likely to be offering such access and, if they do, they will want substantial concessions in return.

Of course, past performance is no guarantee of future prosperity. Historic failure does not preclude future success. And sections of British public opinion have, it appears, ‘had enough of experts’. Even so, economic historians can hold up to scrutiny some of the more extravagant claims of the Brexiteers."

Source: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessrevi...rs-to-account-by-looking-at-economic-history/
 
LSE have an interesting analysis of the hopes of economic progress under Brexit. The path to this goal will, it is said, be clear once the UK leaves. In particular:

  • the UK will be able to make its own trade deals and become a great global trading nation;
  • the UK can develop a less restrictive regulatory framework than that imposed by the EU;
  • industries such as manufacturing, fisheries and agriculture will revive once the country is no longer ‘tethered to the corpse’ of the EU;
  • the post-referendum devaluation will provide a boost for exporters.
"In relation to each of these claims, there is plenty of helpful evidence from economic history. After all, the UK was the first nation to embrace a global trading role. As Keynes pointed out in a famous passage, in 1914:

The inhabitant of London could order by telephone, sipping his morning tea in bed, the various products of the whole earth, in such quantity as he might see fit, and reasonably expect their early delivery upon his doorstep; he could at the same moment and by the same means adventure his wealth in the natural resources and new enterprises of any quarter of the world, and share, without exertion or even trouble, in their prospective fruits and advantages…

Yet, despite this background, and despite the economically advantageous legacies of Empire, the UK spent the period between 1961 and 1973 making increasingly desperate attempts to join a (then much smaller) Common Market. British policymakers were initially dismissive of the European Community. Exports to the Six were thought less important than trade with the Commonwealth. Britain’s initial response was to establish EFTA as a rival free trade area. However, it soon became apparent that this arrangement was lopsided: Britain was part of a free trade area with a population of 89m (including its own 51m), but stood outside the EEC’s tariff walls and population of 170m. Will the 2020s be different from the 1960s? In any event, ‘free trade’ is an elusive concept. As John Biffen, a Tory Trade Minister in the Thatcher government (and no friend of the EU), acknowledged, free trade has never existed ‘outside a textbook’.

As regards decoupling from EU regulations, the UK was, of course, completely free to devise its own regulatory framework prior to accession to the EU in 1973. Nonetheless, in this period, much of the current labour market structure, such as protection against unfair dismissal and redundancy, was enacted. EU regulations, such as the Social Chapter, have complemented, not undermined, this domestic framework. In any event, does the evidence suggest that a mature economy, such as the UK, will be able to establish a more rapid rate of growth with a looser regulatory framework? The obvious comparisons in this respect are the developed North American and Japanese economies. The data suggests that the UK has performed extremely well within the EU framework.

Table 1. GDP per capita (current US$)
Table-Holding-Brexiteers-to-Account.png


Source: World Bank
Of course, much higher rates of growth have recently been achieved in developing economies such as China and India. But it cannot seriously be argued that an economy like the UK, which underwent an industrial revolution in the eighteenth century, can achieve rates of progress comparable to economies that are industrialising now. The whole course of economic history shows that mature economies have much slower rates of growth and that the increases achieved by the USA and the UK over the last few decades are close to optimum performance.

The maturity of the UK economy is also germane to arguments suggesting that it will be possible to revive industries that have suffered long term decline, such as manufacturing, agriculture and fisheries. After all, one consequence of the UK’s early start in manufacturing is that primary industries declined first and most rapidly here. Economic historians have been pointing out since the 1950s that in advanced economies the working population inevitably drifts from agriculture to manufacturing and then from manufacturing to services. In 1973, the American sociologist Daniel Bell greeted the arrival of the post-industrial society. He pointed out that the American economy was the first in the world in which more than 60 per cent of the population were engaged in services, and that this trend was deepening in the USA and elsewhere. Brexit is scarcely likely to reverse these very long-term developments.

The British economy has also had considerable past experience of enforced devaluation (for example in 1931, 1949 and 1967). Research following the 1967 devaluation suggested that a falling pound gave only a temporary fillip to the trade balance, whilst delivering a permanent increase in inflation. Over the same period the West German economy performed extremely strongly, despite a constantly appreciating currency.

Finally, one may question whether the UK can achieve an economic miracle whilst, at the same time, pursuing a very restrictive approach to immigration. Successful economies tend to be extremely open to outsiders, who are both a cause and a consequence of growth. After all, in the pre-1914 golden age to which Keynes referred, there were no controls at all, and the British businessman ‘could secure forthwith, if he wished it, cheap and comfortable means of transit to any country or climate without passport or other formality…and could then proceed abroad to foreign quarters…and would consider himself greatly aggrieved and much surprised at the least interference’. Our putative partners in trade deals are not likely to be offering such access and, if they do, they will want substantial concessions in return.

Of course, past performance is no guarantee of future prosperity. Historic failure does not preclude future success. And sections of British public opinion have, it appears, ‘had enough of experts’. Even so, economic historians can hold up to scrutiny some of the more extravagant claims of the Brexiteers."

Source: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessrevi...rs-to-account-by-looking-at-economic-history/

My reaction to this post was a bit TLDR (but that was just my reaction, not saying it was a bad post!)

That said on free trade and manufacturing industry I do wonder if a lot of the damage was done in the Thatcher years when so much of British Industry went to the wayside under the guise of free marketism.

Once that industry went it becomes more difficult to get it back. I do sometimes wonder if intelligent support, regulation or possibly protection for our industries might not have been a better way forward
 
As you admit you know nothing about it, it may be best to try another thread.....

Edit, apologies, that was a bad response. The other countries you mention though were mostly non combatants and neutral. The Russians did not save us, but they would admit that our Russian conveys certainly saved them. We all did our bit but I have absolutely no admiration for Angela Merkel who completely screwed up EU immigration.....

The axis of evil, namely USA and UK invading Iraq sparked all of that off.

Angela only tried to wash someone else dishes.

It is called humanity.

She rocks.
 
Ah, I love living vicariously through the deeds of people who did brave things 70+ years ago, that I have next to no connection with, and who are nearly all no longer with us. I think doing so makes my life and my own deeds full and virtuous.

Sarcasm doesn't become you; you don't have the wit to carry it off...
 
Ah, I love living vicariously through the deeds of people who did brave things 70+ years ago, that I have next to no connection with, and who are nearly all no longer with us. I think doing so makes my life and my own deeds full and virtuous.

Well you might not give a crap, but I for one am exceedingly proud of what my father and grandfather (who died getting supplies to Malta) did, and I expect a great many others on here will have similar views.......

Edit, actually Bruce which side did your family fight for.......
 
Back on topic! Today's meeting of MEPs showed us what we are up against. In the words of Nigel Farage they are a Mafia gang, using threats, blackmail and extortion. I am left wondering when the penny will drop. They don't seem to realise that they are dealing with Great Britain, the only country along with tiny Malta to resist the German subjucation of Europe. I am convinced that people who have been rescued by another country have 2 weeks of gratitude then hate their liberators. It's all about shame, the knowledge that they didn't have the balls to fight but had to rely on someone else to come to their rescue.

What you saw was the reality of their negotiating stance, it was always going to be thus.

What you then saw was Farage acting like the incendiary idiot that he is and equating them to the mafia, for having the temerity to try and leverage their position.

But we won the war so they should bend over to old Blighty and be grateful.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top