Current Affairs EU In or Out

[JonS]

At the same time, however, it is important to take into account and not ignore factors things like media bias. If you look, for example, at major news outlets and which side of the debate they endorsed, the circulation for papers backing the leave campaign was far higher than the remain. The same can be said about how the media support different political parties and the impact that has. Look at the conservatives today and Labour with a certain Rupert Murdoch paper in '97.

I certainly agree that there are media bias's (leaders like Corbyn and Foot and even Kinnock before him didn't stand a chance).

In Brexit though I would say it was the high circulation (as you say) Sun, Mail and Express against all the rest of the media including the Broadcast media as well as the government at the time and most of the parties.

I don't therefore see an overall bias in the media to Brexit and perhaps even the opposite when the government propaganda is taken into account.

Obviously just my assessment of it but I've tried to be unbiased.

 

[JonS]

You would think, then, that we would have seen a change of government by now as government has FAR greater impact on people's lives in this country than the EU does.

I agree with you on that. Not sure why there hasn't been a clamour for political change in parliament - maybe Labour failing to get itself heard

 

[Seanjd]

I certainly agree that there are media bias's (leaders like Corbyn and Foot and even Kinnock before him didn't stand a chance).

In Brexit though I would say it was the high circulation (as you say) Sun, Mail and Express against all the rest of the media including the Broadcast media as well as the government at the time and most of the parties.

I don't therefore see an overall bias in the media to Brexit and perhaps even the opposite when the government propaganda is taken into account.

Obviously just my assessment of it but I've tried to be unbiased.

The Daily Mail, The Daily Star, The Sun, The Daily Express, The Daily Telegraph and The Sunday Times were all pro-leave.

 

[JonS]

The Daily Mail, The Daily Star, The Sun, The Daily Express, The Daily Telegraph and The Times were all pro-leave.

I didn't realise the Times was. I stand corrected if so.

I still think it was no more than a draw on which side of the argument people were exposed to most, particularly when taking into account the government leaflet and opinionising

 

[Seanjd]

I didn't realise the Times was. I stand corrected if so.

I still think it was no more than a draw on which side of the argument people were exposed to most, particularly when taking into account the government leaflet and opinionising

My mistake, The Sunday Times came out for leave while The Times backed remain. With the risk of sounding like Bruce, This is an interesting study though.

http://reutersinstitute.politics.ox...dum-campaign-was-heavily-skewed-favour-brexit

It also states that although The Times officially backed Remain, it had more of an even spread across both campaigns, with slightly more pro-leave articles.

 

[JonS]

My mistake, The Sunday Times came out for leave while The Times backed remain. With the risk of sounding like Bruce, This is an interesting study though.

http://reutersinstitute.politics.ox...dum-campaign-was-heavily-skewed-favour-brexit

It also states that although The Times officially backed Remain, it had more of an even spread across both campaigns, with slightly more pro-leave articles.

Fair point and I wouldn't disgree with that, its just that I believe in the government leaflet, the broadcast media and even more so in parliament and with the political parties the remain voice was much stronger.

I also believe voters percieved that the establishment was pro remain and voted Brexit partly as an "up yours"to those establishment voices.

 

[Joey66]

My mistake, The Sunday Times came out for leave while The Times backed remain. With the risk of sounding like Bruce, This is an interesting study though.

http://reutersinstitute.politics.ox...dum-campaign-was-heavily-skewed-favour-brexit

It also states that although The Times officially backed Remain, it had more of an even spread across both campaigns, with slightly more pro-leave articles.

never mind the media how about the 8 million pound booklet sent to every household backing remain from the chuckle brothers ?
who buys a newspaper nowadays?
both sides got good media on remain and out - out won, and those EU guys look worried to me now they may play hard ball , but we do not need them other than a trade agreement I voted for twice for , not an expensive wastage of an EU polictical union talking shop with snouts in the trough!
Thats my main reason for voting OUT!

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I also believe voters percieved that the establishment was pro remain and voted Brexit partly as an "up yours"to those establishment voices.

When the converse was actually true, the very core of the 'old money' establishment were pushing for Brexit.

 

[JonS]

never mind the media how about the 8 million pound booklet sent to every household backing remain from the chuckle brothers ?
who buys a newspaper nowadays?
both sides got good media on remain and out - out won, and those EU guys look worried to me now they may play hard ball , but we do not need them other than a trade agreement I voted for twice for , not an expensive wastage of an EU polictical union talking shop with snouts in the trough!
Thats my main reason for voting OUT!

There certainly are snouts in the trough. The money, lifestyle and expenses they receive are obscene when you compare that with Joe Public on zero hours, minimum wage and in many cases still needing to claim benefits on top of that to get enough money to live on

 

[davids]

Unlike the Trump stuff, I've no major beef with anyone who wants to leave the EU. I wouldn't have voted that way myself but can understand why one might. I just don't think the UK lost it's sovereignty. It made massive concessions but never gave up it's sovereignty.

Didn't join the Euro, didn't sign up Schengen,all in all the UK did really well being in the EU while not being in the EU.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36473105

 

[Harryflashman]

My mistake, The Sunday Times came out for leave while The Times backed remain. With the risk of sounding like Bruce, This is an interesting study though.

http://reutersinstitute.politics.ox...dum-campaign-was-heavily-skewed-favour-brexit

It also states that although The Times officially backed Remain, it had more of an even spread across both campaigns, with slightly more pro-leave articles.

I read the Times and felt it was fairly even handed , frankly the way a newspaper should be . It's editorial put it pro remain but as you say it was relatively fair in its reporting .

The complete bias of the major circulation newspapers and that influence shouldn't be underestimated especially when you consider the fairly small margin of victory for leave. Some of the reporting I found genuinely concerning but nothing compares to the "enemies of the people " headline in the mail after the vote , that was an absolute disgrace whatever your political persuasion .

 

[Joey66]

There certainly are snouts in the trough. The money, lifestyle and expenses they receive are obscene when you compare that with Joe Public on zero hours, minimum wage and in many cases still needing to claim benefits on top of that to get enough money to live on

Notice the first thing they want is a lump sum to protect their pensions upfront - May needs to tell them to swivel on a pole thank goodness she has stated that's not on we have 9 billion sitting in their coffers already cheeky Bsts!

 

[JonS]

When the converse was actually true, the very core of the 'old money' establishment were pushing for Brexit.

I can see and acknowledge what you say that there were some establishment in favour of Brexit but can you see and acknowledge what I am saying, that there were - I say the majority but let's just agree - a lot that were pro EU?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I can see and acknowledge what you say that there were some establishment in favour of Brexit but can you see and acknowledge what I am saying, that there were - I say the majority but let's just agree - a lot that were pro EU?

People talked about the 'establishment' but what they really meant was politicians. The genuine 'establishment', the landed gentry, old money, far right Tories, were largely pro Brexit.

IMO the reason so many voted against the status quo was that the average working class man has seen his disposable income eroded since the '08 crash. He's been squeezed hard, zero hours contracts, a lack of social housing etc etc etc. At the same time the pay gap had been ever widening, with the rich getting richer and the poor going to food banks.

The right wing press have been hammering home for years, that all of these ills are primarily due to immigrants, Muslims and Eastern Europeans are to blame for the fact that you're on a zero hours contract and can't get social housing, not the Tory Govt - honest lads. The referendum campaigns saw this ramped up to full bore and whilst many were already sold on this narrative, plenty more joined the bandwagon.

 

[JonS]

People talked about the 'establishment' but what they really meant was politicians. The genuine 'establishment', the landed gentry, old money, far right Tories, were largely pro Brexit.

IMO the reason so many voted against the status quo was that the average working class man has seen his disposable income eroded since the '08 crash. He's been squeezed hard, zero hours contracts, a lack of social housing etc etc etc. At the same time the pay gap had been ever widening, with the rich getting richer and the poor going to food banks.

The right wing press have been hammering home for years, that all of these ills are primarily due to immigrants, Muslims and Eastern Europeans are to blame for the fact that you're on a zero hours contract and can't get social housing, not the Tory Govt - honest lads. The referendum campaigns saw this ramped up to full bore and whilst many were already sold on this narrative, plenty more joined the bandwagon.

Establishment can mean many things but to me there was a massive list of entrenched interests in favour of remaining. Agree there were some (I say a few, you probably say far more) in favour of leaving too.

For me your paragraph 2 (which I agree with) was more why people voted Brexit than paragraph 3 though I accept there was a link