Current Affairs EU In or Out

[JonS]

This is why - http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/eu-position-in-world-trade/index_en.htm

The collective makes a much stronger trading entity.

Doesn't that just mean that the EU countries enrich themselves further at the expense of the rest of the world?

I can understand the EU wants to behave as one collective unit but then if free trade is so good why hasn't it (collectively) made free trade agreements with the rest of the world?

 

[Tubey]

Doesn't that just mean that the EU countries enrich themselves further at the expense of the rest of the world?

I can understand the EU wants to behave as one collective unit but then if free trade is so good why hasn't it (collectively) made free trade agreements with the rest of the world?

Yes, which is the goal of any trade - to make money and drive an economy. That's why being part of the collective strengthens your hand; otherwise you're trading in an imbalanced way with other global powers. See what happens when the UK negotiates with the EU on a free trade deal as an example.

As for the second part - it has, and is. The difference is these are agreements with those "outside of the club", therefore they don't have the same favourable terms. There's differences in how markets work; such as common vs. single market. That's why the ridiculously over-optimistic outlook for the UK after Brexit makes me laugh - we don't have the clout some people think we do. We're not small by any means, but on the global stage we are comparatively small next to the trade partners we'll be looking to work with.

So there'll be a hit to us. A substantial one for years to come. It is inevitable.

 

[roydo]

Yes, which is the goal of any trade - to make money and drive an economy. That's why being part of the collective strengthens your hand; otherwise you're trading in an imbalanced way with other global powers. See what happens when the UK negotiates with the EU on a free trade deal as an example.

As for the second part - it has, and is. The difference is these are agreements with those "outside of the club", therefore they don't have the same favourable terms. There's differences in how markets work; such as common vs. single market. That's why the ridiculously over-optimistic outlook for the UK after Brexit makes me laugh - we don't have the clout some people think we do. We're not small by any means, but on the global stage we are comparatively small next to the trade partners we'll be looking to work with.

So there'll be a hit to us. A substantial one for years to come. It is inevitable.

Yeah, but we can make all our own rules and that now, and spend gazillions on the NHS each week. Now we have our Parliament back, and it has a Government and PM that are dead popular in Liverpool.......

 

[Clint Planet]

We'll be so desperate to sort trade agreements that we'll be like fish in a barrel. What a waste of time and effort the whole Brexit process in going to be.

I don't feel like we've "taken back control at all."

 

[roydo]

We'll be so desperate to sort trade agreements that we'll be like fish in a barrel. What a waste of time and effort the whole Brexit process in going to be.

I don't feel like we've "taken back control at all."

Nor me. In fact, it feels more like utter chaos in motion. No one has a clue what, or how, we are going to do, nor how it will all end up.

But at least the light bulbs might get a bit less confusing, now we are back in control.

 

[Clint Planet]

Yeah, but we can make all our own rules and that now, and spend gazillions on the NHS each week. Now we have our Parliament back, and it has a Government and PM that are dead popular in Liverpool.......

And once Scotland secedes - which is highly likely now Brexit is being triggered - we in England will be lumbered with those loveable Tories for the rest of our lives until, eventually, as the EU crumbles, we will be dragged into an inevitable, catastrophic European war.

Still, at least we're not going to be swamped by 76,000,000 Turkish rapist jihadists.....

Phew! That was a close one!

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Ability to make our own trade agreements would be one of them.

If tarrif free trade is so good then why does the EU stop it's members from making such agreements with countries that aren't in the EU?

That isn't a piece of legislation, that's a fact of being part of a trading bloc. He was talking about EU legislation that we can be shot of.

You can't have countries making individual trade deals outside of the collective as you lose the power of the collective for one.

 

[JonS]

That isn't a piece of legislation, that's a fact of being part of a trading bloc. He was talking about EU legislation that we can be shot of.

You can't have countries making individual trade deals outside of the collective as you lose the power of the collective for one.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Customs_Union

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

We'll be so desperate to sort trade agreements that we'll be like fish in a barrel. What a waste of time and effort the whole Brexit process in going to be.

I don't feel like we've "taken back control at all."

It's complete insanity that we're about to go it alone and alienate our closest 27 markets.

Never mind I'm sure we'll strike a cracking deal with Tonga

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Customs_Union

And what?

 

[Tubey]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Customs_Union

OK, look at it this way.

Imagine you're a business wanting to buy mobile phones for 500 workers in your company.

What do you do - leave it to each employee to negotiate a contract on their own and charge back the cost to the company, or negotiate with the mobile phone supplier for all 500 phones on favourable terms?

That's the benefit of a collective; by negotiating trade from a position of strength, you get favourable terms.

That's why the EU doing a trade deal with, say, Canada, will be much more favourable in terms to the EU than it would be if the UK did it, because there's quite simply more benefit to doing business with the EU overall.

Not only that, a single market means you have tariff free trade with 27 other countries that make up more than 40% of our current trade (cba looking up exact figures again). That is huge to us.

To throw these benefits away for what, to my eyes, is no rational reason whatsoever other than a Little Englander introverted mentality about "taking back control" when they had lost none to begin with, is madness. Absolutely insane.

 

[Joey66]

We'll be so desperate to sort trade agreements that we'll be like fish in a barrel. What a waste of time and effort the whole Brexit process in going to be.

I don't feel like we've "taken back control at all."

We have not left yet!

 

[Joey66]

Nor me. In fact, it feels more like utter chaos in motion. No one has a clue what, or how, we are going to do, nor how it will all end up.

But at least the light bulbs might get a bit less confusing, now we are back in control.

And the electric cleaners, and the cold feed only washing machines, and the light bulbs fluorescent light tubes et etc!
And our fishing waters back etc!

 

[JonS]

And what?

OK, look at this way.

Imagine your a business wanting to buy mobile phones for 500 workers in your company.

What do you do - leave it to each employee to negotiate a contract on their own and charge back the cost to the company, or negotiate with the mobile phone supplier for all 500 phones on favourable terms?

That's the benefit of a collective; by negotiating trade from a position of strength, you get favourable terms.

That's why the EU doing a trade deal with, say, Canada, will be much more favourable in terms to the EU than it would be if the UK did it, because there's quite simply more benefit to doing business with the EU overall.

Not only that, a single market means you have tariff free trade with 27 other countries that make up more than 40% of our current trade (cba looking up exact figures again). That is huge to us.

To throw these benefits away for what, to my eyes, is no rational reason whatsoever other than a Little Englander introverted mentality about "taking back control" when they had lost none to begin with, is madness. Absolutely insane.

Not necessarily. It could be used to have more of a global centric rather than Euro Centric view. The same applies to immigration. Why should there be different terms for someone from the EU wanting to come and live from the UK to someone from the rest of the world?

Rather than leaving the EU being Little Englander I would call the EU as Little Europeaner (or maybe Grosser Europeaner - EU EU uber alles).

Obviously we have different opinions about this, and I'd accept that some Brexit voters might be a bit Little Englander about it, but IMO there is something to be said for small, local and decentralised rather than an ever larger and (to me) increasingly scary superstate

 

[JonS]

And on the issue of being a (to me) scary superstate, ask yourself which best fits nightmare future scenarios outlined in literature, film, science fiction etc - an ever larger EU or Britain as a fully sovereign country?