Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Clint Planet]

No-one is blaming modern Spain for anything. Just saying that Spain didn't lift a finger to help our cause in WW2 while doing quite a bit to help Germany.

But that was a different Spain!! Why can't you see that? It is totally irrelevant to bemoan Spain's lack of help in WW2 when the modern democratic monarchy of Spain is totally different to the brutal Francoist fascism which had just seized power after nearly three years of civil war.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

The freedom to legislate our own laws; 60% of the laws governing the UK have come direct from Brussels. A Brexit priority is to cancel them all.
Freedom of movement? Given a vote the people of Europe would abolish the Schengen disaster.
Poland was overrun, Greece was neutral and have you never heard of Vichy France?

Which of these laws causes you such angst then? Which one of these supposed foisted pieces of legislation are you dying for the UK to be rid of post Brexit? You must surely have a long list.......

Greece wasn't neutral in WWII it was errrmmm invaded, as was France, as was Poland, as would have been the UK had we not been an island nation. All of which is irrelevant btw.

 

[Tubey]

Remoaners need to get a reality check. We are leaving the EU, period.
I have visited Europe every year for the past 25 years, like the countries and their peoples. What I don't like is the European Union, a corrupt, dysfunctional, anti-democratic conspiracy aimed at destroying the freedoms we have fought wars to preserve.
Here is a question. How many of the 27 other countries in the EU stood with us against Germany in WW2? Answer, just 1 - Malta.

Always amazes me how someone can say something so obviously wrong with so much conviction.

I especially love particularly how France doesn't exist in this alternate history. What Maginot Line eh?

 

[Tubey]

Which of these laws causes you such angst then? Which one of these supposed foisted pieces of legislation are you dying for the UK to be rid of post Brexit? You must surely have a long list.......

Greece wasn't neutral in WWII it was errrmmm invaded, as was France, as was Poland, as would have been the UK had we not been an island nation. All of which is irrelevant btw.

To be fair, Holland declared neutrality (as an example) prior to being invaded, as did Greece.

But it doesn't really matter, as he didn't set a time period - he said one country in the current EU was with us in World War 2, being Malta.

If you include Malta, you have to include Holland and Greece, as Malta technically entered the war only when Italians airbombed them in 1940.

But as you say, irrelevant, as the statement made was incredibly wrong simply due to France in the first place.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Well, yes, but you and your mate seem to be blaming Spain's modern democracy for the actions of a Fascist dictator. Laughable.

Apart from my post, I haven't said a single word about Spain. What are you talking about...??? I haven't blamed Spain's modern democracy for anything. Perhaps you could explain your post further, with reference to my post regarding the help Spain gave to the Third Reich in WW2.

 

[Clint Planet]

Here is a question. How many of the 27 other countries in the EU stood with us against Germany in WW2? Answer, just 1 - Malta.

Well, yes, but you and your mate seem to be blaming Spain's modern democracy for the actions of a Fascist dictator. Laughable.

No-one is blaming modern Spain for anything. Just saying that Spain didn't lift a finger to help our cause in WW2 while doing quite a bit to help Germany.

Old Blue, Is your point not something along the lines of "Why should we align ourselves with the likes of Spain when they weren't even there for us in the War?"

Seems a tad small-minded.

I realise I'm talking to two different people here but it seemed you were trying to back him up. Perhaps, I've got it completely wrong!

 

[bring the ghost on]

How many of the 27 other countries in the EU stood with us against Germany in WW2? Answer, just 1 - Malta.

 

[bring the ghost on]

I can't believe this thread has descended into "I like visiting Europe, but where were the Europeans when we needed them in WW2?". Come on @bluecol, you're better than that.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Old Blue, Is your point not something along the lines of "Why should we align ourselves with the likes of Spain when they weren't even there for us in the War?"

Seems a tad small-minded.

I realise I'm talking to two different people here but it seemed you were trying to back him up. Perhaps, I've got it completely wrong!

You have got it completely wrong. You said this: "...Spain was a bit busy, to be fair..." I countered with information concerning Spain's military help to the Third Reich in WW2 - I saw many of the flyers at the Gemeinschaft der Jagdflieger Treffen in Berlin in 1991. That was all.

A few historical things you may want to check out:
The Allies promised the Basques that they would assist them when WW2 was over, given that Franco had supported Hitler in his war. The Basques provided troops, as I said previously, to the Allied cause in the last year of the war, and they were considered to be formidable fighters.
Post-war, the Allies did absolutely nothing against Franco and Spain, going back on their promise to the Basques (probably because they saw the next major threat being the Soviets). Consequently, Franco then got after the Basques, arresting, imprisoning and killing a lot of them. It was this action that led to the formation of ETA, an organisation formed to strike back at the official side of Franco's rule. They did not go after ordinary Spanish civilians, but the officials who were ordering the arrests and killings - I'm not saying that that is right, just that the consequences of one action led to the consequences of another.
Basically, we sold the Basques down the river... Get hold of a copy of 'The Basque History of the World' by Mark Kurlansky if you wish to know more.

Hope this explains things a bit more for you, Clint.

 

[Clint Planet]

You have got it completely wrong. You said this: "...Spain was a bit busy, to be fair..." I countered with information concerning Spain's military help to the Third Reich in WW2 - I saw many of the flyers at the Gemeinschaft der Jagdflieger Treffen in Berlin in 1991. That was all.

A few historical things you may want to check out:
The Allies promised the Basques that they would assist them when WW2 was over, given that Franco had supported Hitler in his war. The Basques provided troops, as I said previously, to the Allied cause in the last year of the war, and they were considered to be formidable fighters.
Post-war, the Allies did absolutely nothing against Franco and Spain, going back on their promise to the Basques (probably because they saw the next major threat being the Soviets). Consequently, Franco then got after the Basques, arresting, imprisoning and killing a lot of them. It was this action that led to the formation of ETA, an organisation formed to strike back at the official side of Franco's rule. They did not go after ordinary Spanish civilians, but the officials who were ordering the arrests and killings - I'm not saying that that is right, just that the consequences of one action led to the consequences of another.
Basically, we sold the Basques down the river... Get hold of a copy of 'The Basque History of the World' by Mark Kurlansky if you wish to know more.

Hope this explains things a bit more for you, Clint.

Right! Apologies.

 

[tsubaki]

You have got it completely wrong. You said this: "...Spain was a bit busy, to be fair..." I countered with information concerning Spain's military help to the Third Reich in WW2 - I saw many of the flyers at the Gemeinschaft der Jagdflieger Treffen in Berlin in 1991. That was all.

A few historical things you may want to check out:
The Allies promised the Basques that they would assist them when WW2 was over, given that Franco had supported Hitler in his war. The Basques provided troops, as I said previously, to the Allied cause in the last year of the war, and they were considered to be formidable fighters.
Post-war, the Allies did absolutely nothing against Franco and Spain, going back on their promise to the Basques (probably because they saw the next major threat being the Soviets). Consequently, Franco then got after the Basques, arresting, imprisoning and killing a lot of them. It was this action that led to the formation of ETA, an organisation formed to strike back at the official side of Franco's rule. They did not go after ordinary Spanish civilians, but the officials who were ordering the arrests and killings - I'm not saying that that is right, just that the consequences of one action led to the consequences of another.
Basically, we sold the Basques down the river... Get hold of a copy of 'The Basque History of the World' by Mark Kurlansky if you wish to know more.

Hope this explains things a bit more for you, Clint.

Not sure how true that is - Franco's help to the Nazis during the war was minimal, and almost all of what support he did give was to allow volunteers to fight the Russians on the specific condition that they did not fight the Western allies. Active Basque support in the last year of the war (and even TBH resistance support before then) would probably rightly have been seen as minimal, just as the Argentinian declaration of war in March 1945 was, and certainly not worth getting rid of Franco over.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Not sure how true that is - Franco's help to the Nazis during the war was minimal, and almost all of what support he did give was to allow volunteers to fight the Russians on the specific condition that they did not fight the Western allies. Active Basque support in the last year of the war (and even TBH resistance support before then) would probably rightly have been seen as minimal, just as the Argentinian declaration of war in March 1945 was, and certainly not worth getting rid of Franco over.

Not bad, eh?
"During the German occupation of France, the Spanish Maquis engineered more than four hundred railway sabotages, destroyed fifty-eight locomotives, dynamited thirty-five railway bridges, cut one hundred and fifty telephone lines, attacked twenty factories, destroying some factories totally, and sabotaged fifteen coal mines. They took several thousand German prisoners and - most miraculous considering their arms - they captured three tanks.

In the south-west part of France where no Allied armies have ever fought, they liberated more than seventeen towns."

 

[JonS]

Spain was a bit busy, to be fair. France, Belgium, Poland, Denmark, Czech Republic may have something to say about your churlish remark. What freedoms has the EU destroyed, by the way? How has sixty years of lasting peace been for you? The way things are going, I can see a major war developing in Western Europe within my lifetime. Never thought I'd hear myself say that. Nice work there, Brexitistas!

As for "Remoaners" - you betcha. We're angry as hell at the stupidity of all of this and we'll keep on remoaning like hell.

"Stupidity" in YOUR opinion. Not stupid in MY opinion.

Our opinions are just opinions, not facts.

And we all voted and the opinion that most people voted for won.

No problem with you moaning like hell - that's your democratic right

 

[JonS]

Which of these laws causes you such angst then? Which one of these supposed foisted pieces of legislation are you dying for the UK to be rid of post Brexit? You must surely have a long list.......

Greece wasn't neutral in WWII it was errrmmm invaded, as was France, as was Poland, as would have been the UK had we not been an island nation. All of which is irrelevant btw.

Ability to make our own trade agreements would be one of them.

If tarrif free trade is so good then why does the EU stop it's members from making such agreements with countries that aren't in the EU?

 

[Tubey]

Ability to make our own trade agreements would be one of them.

If tarrif free trade is so good then why does the EU stop it's members from making such agreements with countries that aren't in the EU?

This is why - http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/eu-position-in-world-trade/index_en.htm

The collective makes a much stronger trading entity.