Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
Status
Not open for further replies.
I find it hilarious how people genuinely believe that we're in the best possible position right now when it comes to negotiations.

We're really not.

It's not even about being a 'doomsayer', it's about realising the problems at hand and attempting to deal with them. Any attempt to realise the situation for what it is is not only idiotic, but dangerous for us going forward as a country.
 
Also, another thing that's really irritating me is this falsity of "the people voted for us to leave" as if it was called for by a massive majority.

No, there was a 1% margin between remain and leave.

One percent.
 
Also, another thing that's really irritating me is this falsity of "the people voted for us to leave" as if it was called for by a massive majority.

No, there was a 1% margin between remain and leave.

One percent.
It was 51%to 48% of those who voted, 56% to leave in England, and the stay vote had a build in 1.5 million advantage of people from places like Ireland, Malta , Gibraltar, ect who despite settling here are not citizens of the UK were allowed to vote, along with the expat vote all who would would have been like Turkey's voting for xmas if they voted out, take them out of the equation and UK vote to leave gets even wider.
How is that 1%
 
It was 51%to 48% of those who voted, 56% to leave in England, and the stay vote had a build in 1.5 million advantage of people from places like Ireland, Malta , Gibraltar, ect who despite settling here are not citizens of the UK were allowed to vote, along with the expat vote all who would would have been like Turkey's voting for xmas if they voted out, take them out of the equation and UK vote to leave gets even wider.
How is that 1%

Ireland didn't get to vote.

Malta didn't get to vote.

What on earth are you on about.

The one good thing about this is how badly right-wing populism will get spanked when we get torn to shreds by the EU negotiations.
 
Ireland didn't get to vote.

Malta didn't get to vote.

What on earth are you on about.

The one good thing about this is how badly right-wing populism will get spanked when we get torn to shreds by the EU negotiations.
There citizen's who reside here did get to vote, that's what I am going on about, as did all of Gibraltar ,
Again were is the 1% coming from.
 
It was 51%to 48% of those who voted, 56% to leave in England, and the stay vote had a build in 1.5 million advantage of people from places like Ireland, Malta , Gibraltar, ect who despite settling here are not citizens of the UK were allowed to vote, along with the expat vote all who would would have been like Turkey's voting for xmas if they voted out, take them out of the equation and UK vote to leave gets even wider.
How is that 1%

Let's use the same logic that you're employing here.

Let's take the percentage of all 'home nations' as the independent variable here, and see where that leaves us.
  • 46.6% of the population of England voted to remain.
  • 55.8% of the population of Northern Ireland voted to remain.
  • 62.0% of the population of Scotland voted to remain.
  • 47.5% of the population of Wales voted to remain.
In no instance there does that indicate that the "vast majority" of "home country" votes voted for us to leave.

I do apologise, the value is closer to 3.6/.8% on closer inspection - but that's still not a clear majority.
 
Also, it's also pretty important to see what Sir Ivan Rogers actually wrote in his resignation e-mail/letter.

From: Ivan Rogers (Sensitive) Sent: 03 January 2017 12:50

Dear All,

Happy New Year! I hope that you have all had/are still having, a great break, and that you will come back refreshed and ready for an exciting year ahead.

I am writing to you all on the first day back to tell you that I am today resigning as Permanent Representative.

As most of you will know, I started here in November 2013. My four-year tour is therefore due to end in October – although in practice if we had been doing the Presidency my time here would have been extended by a few months.

As we look ahead to the likely timetable for the next few years, and with the invocation of Article 50 coming up shortly, it is obvious that it will be best if the top team in situ at the time that Article 50 is invoked remains there till the end of the process and can also see through the negotiations for any new deal between the UK and the EU27.

It would obviously make no sense for my role to change hands later this year.

I have therefore decided to step down now, having done everything that I could in the last 6 months to contribute my experience, expertise and address book to get the new team at political and official level under way. This will permit a new appointee to be in place by the time Article 50 is invoked.

Importantly, it will also enable that person to play a role in the appointment of Shan’s replacement as DPR. I know from experience – both my own hugely positive experience of working in partnership with Shan, and from seeing past, less happy, examples – how imperative it is that the PR and DPR operate as a team, if UKREP is to function as well as I believe it has done over the last few years.

I want to put on record how grateful I am to Shan for the great working relationship we have had. She will be hugely missed in UKREP, and by many others here in Brussels, but she will be a tremendous asset to the Welsh Government.

From my soundings before Christmas, I am optimistic that there will be a very good field of candidates for the DPR role. But it is right these two roles now get considered and filled alongside each other, and for my successor to play the leading role in making the DPR appointment. I shall therefore stand aside from the process at this point.

I know that this news will add, temporarily, to the uncertainty that I know, from our many discussions in the autumn, you are all feeling about the role of UKREP in the coming months and years of negotiations over “Brexit.” I am sorry about that, but I hope that it will help produce earlier and greater clarity on the role that UKREP should play.

My own view remains as it has always been. We do not yet know what the Government will set as negotiating objectives for the UK’s relationship with the EU after exit. There is much we will not know until later this year about the political shape of the EU itself, and who the political protagonists in any negotiation with the UK will be.

But in any negotiation which addresses the new relationship, the technical expertise, the detailed knowledge of positions on the other side of the table – and the reasons for them, and the divisions amongst them – and the negotiating experience and savvy that the people in this building bring, make it essential for all parts of UKREP to be centrally involved in the negotiations if the UK is to achieve the best possible outcomes.

Serious multilateral negotiating experience is in short supply in Whitehall, and that is not the case in the Commission or in the Council. The Government will only achieve the best for the country if it harnesses the best experience we have – a large proportion of which is concentrated in UKREP – and negotiates resolutely. Senior Ministers, who will decide on our positions, issue by issue, also need from you detailed, unvarnished – even where this is uncomfortable - and nuanced understanding of the views, interests and incentives of the other 27.

The structure of the UK’s negotiating team and the allocation of roles and responsibilities to support that team, needs rapid resolution. The working methods which enable the team in London and Brussels to function seamlessly need also to be strengthened.

The great strength of the UK system – at least as it has been perceived by all others in the EU – has always been its unique combination of policy depth, expertise and coherence, message co-ordination and discipline, and the ability to negotiate with skill and determination. UKREP has always been key to all of that. We shall need it more than ever in the years ahead.

As I have argued consistently at every level since June, many opportunities for the UK in the future will derive from the mere fact of having left and being free to take a different path. But others will depend entirely on the precise shape of deals we can negotiate in the years ahead. Contrary to the beliefs of some, free trade does not just happen when it is not thwarted by authorities: increasing market access to other markets and consumer choice in our own, depends on the deals, multilateral, plurilateral and bilateral that we strike, and the terms that we agree. I shall advise my successor to continue to make these points.

Meanwhile, I would urge you all to stick with it, to keep on working at intensifying your links with opposite numbers in DEXEU and line Ministries and to keep on contributing your expertise to the policy-making process as negotiating objectives get drawn up. The famed UKREP combination of immense creativity with realism ground in negotiating experience, is needed more than ever right now.

On a personal level, leaving UKREP will be a tremendous wrench. I have had the great good fortune, and the immense privilege, in my civil service career, to have held some really interesting and challenging roles: to have served 4 successive UK Prime Ministers very closely; to have been EU, G20 and G8 Sherpa; to have chaired a G8 Presidency and to have taken part in some of the most fraught, and fascinating, EU negotiations of the last 25 years – in areas from tax, to the MFF to the renegotiation.

Of all of these posts, I have enjoyed being the Permanent Representative more than any other I have ever held. That is, overwhelmingly, because of all of you and what you all make UKREP: a supremely professional place, with a fantastic co-operative culture, which brings together talented people whether locally employed or UK-based and uniquely brings together people from the home civil service with those from the Foreign Office. UKREP sets itself demanding standards, but people also take the time to support each other which also helps make it an amazingly fun and stimulating place to work. I am grateful for everything you have all done over the last few years to make this such a fantastic operation.

For my part, I hope that in my day-to-day dealings with you I have demonstrated the values which I have always espoused as a public servant. I hope you will continue to challenge ill-founded arguments and muddled thinking and that you will never be afraid to speak the truth to those in power. I hope that you will support each other in those difficult moments where you have to deliver messages that are disagreeable to those who need to hear them. I hope that you will continue to be interested in the views of others, even where you disagree with them, and in understanding why others act and think in the way that they do. I hope that you will always provide the best advice and counsel you can to the politicians that our people have elected, and be proud of the essential role we play in the service of a great democracy.
 
Let's use the same logic that you're employing here.

Let's take the percentage of all 'home nations' as the independent variable here, and see where that leaves us.
  • 46.6% of the population of England voted to remain.
  • 55.8% of the population of Northern Ireland voted to remain.
  • 62.0% of the population of Scotland voted to remain.
  • 47.5% of the population of Wales voted to remain.
In no instance there does that indicate that the "vast majority" of "home country" votes voted for us to leave.

I do apologise, the value is closer to 3.6/.8% on closer inspection - but that's still not a clear majority.
A win is a win even if it was less than a 100 people its what we voted for, same if it went the other way at.
Don't know why everyone gets to excited about it , in the end we will end up with some sort of half in half out arrangement, as its in both sides interests to keep it that way,
Well those in power anyway,
Don't think we have the leadership to carry through the threats on either side , so comprises will be the order of the day, unless outside events overtake the talks , like the Italian economic problems which could change the current stances.
PS sir Ivan was the fella who negotiate for Cameron , who came back with nothing to show for it , the in out vote could be blamed on his lack of movement with the EU to keep the UK on board.
Not somebody to be missed if that's all he could achieve when the stakes were so high
 
Last edited:
Let's use the same logic that you're employing here.

Let's take the percentage of all 'home nations' as the independent variable here, and see where that leaves us.
  • 46.6% of the population of England voted to remain.
  • 55.8% of the population of Northern Ireland voted to remain.
  • 62.0% of the population of Scotland voted to remain.
  • 47.5% of the population of Wales voted to remain.
In no instance there does that indicate that the "vast majority" of "home country" votes voted for us to leave.

I do apologise, the value is closer to 3.6/.8% on closer inspection - but that's still not a clear majority.
the ballot paper stated the whole of the UK not regions argument lost!
 
People keep talking about the percentage of the vote because it sounds better then then talking real numbers of actual votes. The vote wasn't as close as some remainers would like us to believe. 17,410,742 people across the United Kingdom voted to leave and 16,141,241 voted to remain. This means that 1,269,501 more people chose to leave the EU then remain. Just remember that remainers when you talk about percentages.
 
Last edited:
Think you should be directing that at @edge mate, he was the one who brought regions into it
well he can read it it was never ever a referendum on regions of the country it was a democratic vote if this is the case in London Labour could argue they should be in power as a government - an utter stupid analogy it was the vote for all the UK end of 5 .5 million people in Scotland averaged a 60/40 vote to remain a very small % of the population of the UK!
the referendum rules were for the total vote which was approximately 52/48= Out!
the remain camp would have accepted it no doubts about that!
 
People keep talking about the percentage of the vote because it sounds better then then talking real numbers of actual votes. The vote wasn't as close as some remainers would like us to believe. 17,410,742 people across the United Kingdom voted to leave and 16,141,241 voted to remain. This means that 1,269,501 more people chose to leave the EU then remain. Just remember that remainers when you talk about percentages.

Do you have any basic understanding of ratios?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top