Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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Before the referendum, on a Sky debate, a former Irish foreign minister said that the Republic would consider " ... Brexit as an act of war." More of the hyperbole.

The border issue was discussed ad nauseum before the vote in the six counties and had passing references in the debate over here.

An article from the Guardian back in October.....the UK and Ireland will work it out.......


"Britain is seeking to shift the frontline of immigration controls to Ireland’s ports and airports to avoid having to introduce a “hard border” between north and south after the UK leaves the European Union, the Guardian has learned.

The Northern Ireland secretary, James Brokenshire, has told the Guardian that London and Dublin will work to strengthen Ireland’s external borders in order to combat illegal migration into the UK once it leaves the European Union.

In an interview, Brokenshire said there was now a “high level of collaboration on a joint programme of work” between the two states to control immigration.

“We have put in place a range of measures to further combat illegal migration working closely with the Irish government,” Brokenshire said. “Our focus is to strengthen the external border of the common travel area [CTA], building on the strong collaboration with our Irish partners.”

The CTA is a unique arrangement that allows for full freedom of movement between people from Ireland and Britain on both islands.

After Britain’s vote to leave the EU in June, concern mounted that to control immigration, measures would have to be imposed on the 300-mile border between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland. Any such border controls would probably be seen as a violation of the Good Friday agreement and a provocation in a region that has only relatively recently put violence behind it.

Shifting the onus of immigration control to Irish entry points such as Dublin airport and Rosslare port would avoid this.

Brokenshire said: “We are already working closely with the Irish government and other members of the common travel area to prevent people from seeking to evade UK immigration controls from entering via another part of the CTA. There is a high level of collaboration on a joint programme of work. This includes investment in border procedures; increased data sharing to inform immigration and border security decisions; passenger data systems enabling the collection and processing of advance passenger information; and harmonised visa processes.”

The measures will be aimed primarily at non-Europeans seeking entry into the CTA. Politicians on all sides of the divide on the island of Ireland have expressed concern that Irish border towns such as Dundalk could become the “new Calais” if people-traffickers trying to send migrants into the UK target the Irish Republic as a “jump-off point” into Northern Ireland.

Precedents already exist for this Anglo-Irish collaborative model: Indian and Chinese visitors are subject to a system whereby they apply for a single visa, valid for travel in both Ireland and the UK.

The joint Anglo-Irish border procedures will not be able to stem the arrival of EU nationals, as they will retain the right to free movement to live and work in the Irish Republic. However, this point is seen as moot: officials believe few EU citizens will want to come and work illegally in the UK after Brexit. “The numbers would be very small,” said one diplomatic source familiar with Brexit discussions.

The Fine Gael-led coalition government in Dublin has confirmed it is in negotiations with London to better share intelligence to tighten immigration controls for people from outside Britain and Ireland.

Ireland’s foreign minister, Charles Flanagan, said he welcomed Brokenshire’s commitment to an invisible north-south border and agreed on the importance of an intelligence-led approach to curbing illegal immigration across the Irish border.

Flanagan said: “In terms of the threat of illegal immigration through the border, the sharing of information is vital, as is the sharing of systems and the use of digital technology. These are means by which we can ensure that any adverse impact is minimised. The object of our engagement is to maintain the common travel area.”

However, he stressed that upgrading immigration controls between the UK and Ireland would, from Dublin’s perspective, have to be negotiated alongside the country’s EU partners.

“I caution that this will be a decision not just by the UK or Irish governments but ultimately also by the 27 EU states. I have been impressing on my fellow 26 EU foreign ministerial colleagues the importance of maintaining what is now an invisible border. I have to say there was among them a deep understanding of the consequences for the peace process of the reimposition of a heavily fortified border,” he added.

Brokenshire said that Brexit would neither destabilise the power-sharing institutions set up under the Good Friday agreement nor provide any propaganda boost for hardline dissident republicans opposed to devolution in Belfast.

“Political stability and prosperity in Northern Ireland has been hard fought over many decades, and we will not do anything to undermine it,” he said. “There is no reason to think that the outcome of the referendum will do anything to undermine the rock-solid commitment of the UK government and the people of Northern Ireland to the settlement set out in the Belfast agreement and its successors.”

The Northern Ireland secretary insisted that he did not even want to see customs checks on the border when the UK triggers article 50 and finally leaves the EU.

“The open border for people and businesses has served us well and no one wants to see a return to the borders of the past. It is a high priority for the government that we do not see border controls coming into place. There is a very strong commitment from the Irish government as well as ourselves to see that that does not happen.”
 
Brexit was not ill conceived it was voted via parliment on the basis of how the format of the voting paper should look like by a majority of 6-1 MPs followed by a three month campaign which you ESK of Remain lost - just live with it!
some remainers on here do accept the democratic decision ?????
I voted out for the first time voting twice to have a trade block not a polictical union of bullies at high cost two unnecessary parliaments etc etc

I'll be supporting the campaign to stop Brexit until either it is stopped or regrettably it happens.
 
What's that phrase, 'if you want to make an omelette you have to crack some eggs'? Brexit was always going to lead to some tricky logistics, but almost every decision in life has an unwanted byproduct. Doesn't mean you have to do nothing in life, in case it creates a situation you have to work around.

Indeed, the hysteria generated by Remain supporters is incredible. Every time another issue pops up toys are again thrown out of prams to the sounds of "we must reverse the Brexit vote", it's getting a bit ridiculous now......
 
Again, exactly my point.
What point look the David Davis team have had to go through 43 years of EU scrolls of laws some we will keep some we will bin - they too will be put before Parliment, there may be a simple check point not barriers in Ireland all three governments have concurred it will not be a like it was in the hostilities it will be bumpy all over it will take time the country voted out , and the super rich do not like it!
after our two year exit we can then trade freely all over the world the NZ and Australia stated they will help us in 5 years time I hope the majority will say what a brave great move it was!
 
Just a reminder that leaving the Customs Union will cost an estimated £25 bn a year and require a 37% increase in trade with our 10 largest non European trading partners to put us back in the position we are currently in.
 
Perhaps, our it was based on a handful of key points, and many lesser factors would simply have to be worked out later.

It's like needing to move house, but deciding not to cos it would mean you had to change your broadband provider.

But one of the key points is immigration and securing borders. Hows this going to be done? Hardly minutia.

It's like needing to move house to be beside a great new school for your kids but that school doesn't have planning permission yet.
 
An article from the Guardian back in October.....the UK and Ireland will work it out.......


"Britain is seeking to shift the frontline of immigration controls to Ireland’s ports and airports to avoid having to introduce a “hard border” between north and south after the UK leaves the European Union, the Guardian has learned.

The Northern Ireland secretary, James Brokenshire, has told the Guardian that London and Dublin will work to strengthen Ireland’s external borders in order to combat illegal migration into the UK once it leaves the European Union.

In an interview, Brokenshire said there was now a “high level of collaboration on a joint programme of work” between the two states to control immigration.

“We have put in place a range of measures to further combat illegal migration working closely with the Irish government,” Brokenshire said. “Our focus is to strengthen the external border of the common travel area [CTA], building on the strong collaboration with our Irish partners.”

The CTA is a unique arrangement that allows for full freedom of movement between people from Ireland and Britain on both islands.

After Britain’s vote to leave the EU in June, concern mounted that to control immigration, measures would have to be imposed on the 300-mile border between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland. Any such border controls would probably be seen as a violation of the Good Friday agreement and a provocation in a region that has only relatively recently put violence behind it.

Shifting the onus of immigration control to Irish entry points such as Dublin airport and Rosslare port would avoid this.

Brokenshire said: “We are already working closely with the Irish government and other members of the common travel area to prevent people from seeking to evade UK immigration controls from entering via another part of the CTA. There is a high level of collaboration on a joint programme of work. This includes investment in border procedures; increased data sharing to inform immigration and border security decisions; passenger data systems enabling the collection and processing of advance passenger information; and harmonised visa processes.”

The measures will be aimed primarily at non-Europeans seeking entry into the CTA. Politicians on all sides of the divide on the island of Ireland have expressed concern that Irish border towns such as Dundalk could become the “new Calais” if people-traffickers trying to send migrants into the UK target the Irish Republic as a “jump-off point” into Northern Ireland.

Precedents already exist for this Anglo-Irish collaborative model: Indian and Chinese visitors are subject to a system whereby they apply for a single visa, valid for travel in both Ireland and the UK.

The joint Anglo-Irish border procedures will not be able to stem the arrival of EU nationals, as they will retain the right to free movement to live and work in the Irish Republic. However, this point is seen as moot: officials believe few EU citizens will want to come and work illegally in the UK after Brexit. “The numbers would be very small,” said one diplomatic source familiar with Brexit discussions.

The Fine Gael-led coalition government in Dublin has confirmed it is in negotiations with London to better share intelligence to tighten immigration controls for people from outside Britain and Ireland.

Ireland’s foreign minister, Charles Flanagan, said he welcomed Brokenshire’s commitment to an invisible north-south border and agreed on the importance of an intelligence-led approach to curbing illegal immigration across the Irish border.

Flanagan said: “In terms of the threat of illegal immigration through the border, the sharing of information is vital, as is the sharing of systems and the use of digital technology. These are means by which we can ensure that any adverse impact is minimised. The object of our engagement is to maintain the common travel area.”

However, he stressed that upgrading immigration controls between the UK and Ireland would, from Dublin’s perspective, have to be negotiated alongside the country’s EU partners.

“I caution that this will be a decision not just by the UK or Irish governments but ultimately also by the 27 EU states. I have been impressing on my fellow 26 EU foreign ministerial colleagues the importance of maintaining what is now an invisible border. I have to say there was among them a deep understanding of the consequences for the peace process of the reimposition of a heavily fortified border,” he added.

Brokenshire said that Brexit would neither destabilise the power-sharing institutions set up under the Good Friday agreement nor provide any propaganda boost for hardline dissident republicans opposed to devolution in Belfast.

“Political stability and prosperity in Northern Ireland has been hard fought over many decades, and we will not do anything to undermine it,” he said. “There is no reason to think that the outcome of the referendum will do anything to undermine the rock-solid commitment of the UK government and the people of Northern Ireland to the settlement set out in the Belfast agreement and its successors.”

The Northern Ireland secretary insisted that he did not even want to see customs checks on the border when the UK triggers article 50 and finally leaves the EU.

“The open border for people and businesses has served us well and no one wants to see a return to the borders of the past. It is a high priority for the government that we do not see border controls coming into place. There is a very strong commitment from the Irish government as well as ourselves to see that that does not happen.”

Right, so any EU citizen can still enter the UK.
 
But one of the key points is immigration and securing borders. Hows this going to be done? Hardly minutia.

It's like needing to move house to be beside a great new school for your kids but that school doesn't have planning permission yet.
The key point is the actual concept of immigration and border control. How you do it is not a key point. It's something you figure out.
 
And it was highly appropriate to have a referendum on that very important binary decision

Of course. No problem with the actual decision to hold a vote.

Just a tad concerned that we seem to have ended up in a blind alley, being led by blind MPs.
 
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