Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
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roydo said:
Not really. Just very sad.
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The lack of funding goes back to blairs borrowing to build new hospitals we will be paying them for a lifetime, agency nurses run the budgets down then Osbornes cuts on councils that provide social care etc it's a mess you could throw billions at the NHS TBH it's like pouring money down a grid the restructure under DC etc it's a Polictical football it's becoming unsustainable the staff 99 percent of them are brilliant!
 
mellowblue said:
Big chip on your shoulder about a university education eh? One of your usual sweeping generalisations..
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No it's a fact we have people with degrees working in bars unskilled work etc - too many are going to university to cover subjects that are not needed in the real world - what's wrong in learning a trade ?
I am happy to have done that sitting pretty in a luxury house with two cars etc I feel so sorry for the youngsters of today, my own daughter has a masters degree works hard in a job she does not like if I could turn the clock back I would have stood in her way and sent her down the vocational skill route we need skilled people in trades it's not a chip on my shoulder it's a fact somehow university seems the b all and end all in the UK - while we have a massive skill shortage bring the old 4 year city and guilds back and you get great on the job proper training with the theory too!
Some oldies like me once retired the hand on skills go with me not to be passed on in my time I trained many apprentices till they dried up!
 
Joey66 said:
No the strain on the NHS no beds no ambulances a paramedic been with her for four hours 7 hours wait for a locum GP I am full of man flu so can't help it's just the state of the NHS all over the UK it's in meltdown The will be a winter crisis no doubts about it no beds no ambulances they are Queing outside A&E nothing to do with imigration just lack of funds - my late father in law this year had a brain tumour terminal a nurse turned to me and called him a bed blocker!
I let rip, and reported her nothing happened she was an agency nurse which they drain the funds of the NHS!
No love for our NHS ATM - the cottage hospital was great the main hospitals are under too much stress breaking point in fact just having a bad day no it's not down to immigration sorry if it sounded that way!
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Really sorry you are having such a bad year of it, Joey. I thought it was very decent of you to post the above. Not many on here would have done that. As you say, the NHS is in a mess, as is most of the country to be honest. The bulk of our media, politicians and the rich are quite happy to point the finger at things like immigration and effectively say "Nothing to do with us, look over there at all of those immigrants, that's where your problem is". If the will was there, a lot of these problems could be significantly reduced but as @The Esk has said, they prefer lobbing billions at a London-centric project such as H2S because it has supposed economic benefits which everyone knows will never materialise.
 
davmaher said:
Really sorry you are having such a bad year of it, Joey. I thought it was very decent of you to post the above. Not many on here would have done that. As you say, the NHS is in a mess, as is most of the country to be honest. The bulk of our media, politicians and the rich are quite happy to point the finger at things like immigration and effectively say "Nothing to do with us, look over there at all of those immigrants, that's where your problem is". If the will was there, a lot of these problems could be significantly reduced but as @The Esk has said, they prefer lobbing billions at a London-centric project such as H2S because it has supposed economic benefits which everyone knows will never materialise.
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Thanks for that my wife has now phoned for an ambulance after a mere 6 hours they are escalating it my mother in law is so dizzy she can not stand up could be a virus , but without taking chances after a stroke she will have to go in better safe than sorry !
 
Joey66 said:
Thanks for that my wife has now phoned for an ambulance after a mere 6 hours they are escalating it my mother in law is so dizzy she can not stand up could be a virus , but without taking chances after a stroke she will have to go in better safe than sorry !
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Hope it all gets sorted Joey. We lob stats and opinions about in here, but for all the rights and wrongs, at the end of the day, thoughts with you and yours tonight.
 
The Esk said:
It's all about priorities - it is within the power of Government to do all of these things. Governments can build more hospitals, schools and public sector housing if they want to. Currently they'd rather do a vanity project like HS2 costing £60bn.

immigrants arriving here are not adding to unemployment they're adding to the size of the economy generating income for government, themselves and their families
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1. The top strata of society, which controls what happens in this country and others, will NEVER provide what is necessary totally for the lower classes...

2. Having worked in the benefit-paying system for over 30 years, I respectfully suggest you are wrong, because you do not know what you are talking about. You haven't seen the other side...
 
Old Blue 2 said:
2. Having worked in the benefit-paying system for over 30 years, I respectfully suggest you are wrong, because you do not know what you are talking about. You haven't seen the other side...
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Genuinely can you tell me which side I've not seen - I'm not with you.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
I've told you, EU migrants contribute to the NHS far more than they cost it. The NHS is struggling for a great many reasons, foremost of which are the demographics of the nation and preponderance of long-term conditions such as diabetes. I've said previously, pensions are paid for out of general taxation, and we have half as many working age people as retirees than we did when the state pension was created. Those retirees are also the biggest drain on NHS resources, as around 1/3 of all NHS spending is spent in the final year of someone's life.

That's the basic equation. We either:
  • increase the retirement age significantly
  • decrease the state pension significantly
  • increase the number of working age people in the country (significantly)
You can take your pick on that, but there has been a long history of the elderly not voting for an increase in the retirement age in line with increases in life expectancy, and likewise among all the welfare budget cuts, pensions have remain triple locked. So what does that leave you with?

Regarding housing, I must have answered that question at least a dozen times in this thread already. Government after government has pledged to build a lot more houses, and government after government has failed to do so, with the reason for that predominantly the NIMBY planning regulations and the restrictive greenbelt. These things are quite well known but no government has wanted to touch them. Nor have they considered more creative solutions such as a Land Value Tax.
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Old Blue 2 said:
How about a fourth bullet point:
Tax correctly all those multi-millionaires/billionaires who evead tax every year, and also those massive businesses who pay little or no tax every year. If that meant changing the tax laws to close the loopholes (for example if goods are sold on Amazon.co.uk then tax is paid as per UK rules, and the payment is not allowed to be spirited away to some tax-dodging haven elsewhere in the world).

Collect the taxes correctly in the first place and the probelms you pontificate about would not be there.

Selective again, Bruce. Your mantra is TOTALLY boring now...
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Foot Long Hot Dog said:
Truly incredible that people have swallowed the lack of NHS funding somehow being the fault of immigrants isn't it...
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Joey66 said:
No the strain on the NHS no beds no ambulances a paramedic been with her for four hours 7 hours wait for a locum GP I am full of man flu so can't help it's just the state of the NHS all over the UK it's in meltdown The will be a winter crisis no doubts about it no beds no ambulances they are Queing outside A&E nothing to do with imigration just lack of funds - my late father in law this year had a brain tumour terminal a nurse turned to me and called him a bed blocker!
I let rip, and reported her nothing happened she was an agency nurse which they drain the funds of the NHS!
No love for our NHS ATM - the cottage hospital was great the main hospitals are under too much stress breaking point in fact just having a bad day no it's not down to immigration sorry if it sounded that way!
Click to expand...

davmaher said:
Really sorry you are having such a bad year of it, Joey. I thought it was very decent of you to post the above. Not many on here would have done that. As you say, the NHS is in a mess, as is most of the country to be honest. The bulk of our media, politicians and the rich are quite happy to point the finger at things like immigration and effectively say "Nothing to do with us, look over there at all of those immigrants, that's where your problem is". If the will was there, a lot of these problems could be significantly reduced but as @The Esk has said, they prefer lobbing billions at a London-centric project such as H2S because it has supposed economic benefits which everyone knows will never materialise.
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Getting slightly off topic but we really need to sort out what we want with the NHS.

In my part of London (West) hospitals or A and E's are being closed left right and centre.

If Cuba can have excellent health care I don't see why we can't.

Think we need to start with what we want (and I say decent health education and housing would be a good start) and then work backwards to how we are going to get there.

For me it is certain that a greed and casino economy with financial speculation affecting everything and much of the capital being bought up by foreign oligarchs (now that would be some immigration worth stopping) is contributing to our ills.

Though if we do stay with capitalism Singapore is a better model in looking after its citizens than we have at the moment.
 
Back on the subject of the EU, is it ok that with the Customs Union there are no tariffs on trade between EU countries but that all EU countries must charge obligatory set tarrifs on countries outside the EU when they want to trade inside the EU?

IMO I don't think it is ok and is designed to just make the rich EU countries even richer at the expense of the rest of the world.

Similarly, why freedom of movement of workers between EU countries but no freedom of movement for or from countries outside the EU?

I do get frustrated at "Remain" being seen as a more liberal, progressive option when to me it seems anything but, and when Brexiteers like myself are labelled not-progressive or even racist for wanting a more world-centric unselfish Britain (though I do accept that some pro-Brexit politicians are more likely to go down the Little Englander route)
 
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