ESSG

[windymiller]

Not wanting to go back over many pages of arguments etc; can anyone summarise what is the point of this group and what they are hoping to achieve?

Not making any judgement; just want to understand where they are coming from and what they want.

Nobody knows mate, except @Tom Hughes and he ain't telling.

 

[NeroCeasar]

This is so so dangerous and is the first step on the path to all out war. It will go like this
You don't like the candidates then nominate your own

If you want to nominate a candidate why don't you join one of the associated groups, pay your sub and nominate someone

You stand on the outside shouting and roaring, asking questions but you won't become an official member where you could have your say officially

You haven't joined any of the affiliated groups so your not entitled to be heard

Your not even a real fan, I am

I have seen it first hand over the last ten years, small club, completely different economies of scale but the principles and the way this will split the fans into those who believe they are superior and those they believe should be happy to be told what they are told, is absolutely inevitable, the only question that remains is how long will it take?

Overseas supporters groups were represented in the working group. If you are a member of one of those you can take it up with them..... if not, you could be anyone. Are you suggesting that anyone should be able to vote for a fan director?

You have moved to stage two quicker then I thought you would tbh

Yum yum. Its the type of meeting I want to be a part of.

The proposals are for a democratic vote for a fan director and a fan advisory board. Simple as that really.

It's not a simple as that, as I have said I have seen first hand the creation of super fans, a group or groups that feel empowered by their involvement in their club, I have seen them lauding it over other fans, I have seen the anger of the other fans when things go wrong and the "super fans" get held responsible and I have seen the untold damage done by the whole sorry mess. Everton won't be the only club to suffer this way but the inevitablity of what will happen is clear to me.

Ironically the first thing we joked about was what type of biscuits the super fans got in the tea room to which they had access on match day, I'm laughing at essentially the same joke being the first made here as well

 

[Tom Hughes]

Not trying to be pedantic Tom but, aren't you on the SA committee ?
If no, then I'll shut up.
If yes, haven't you spoken with John Blain about this breakdown in communication between JB and Dave Kelly, as it didn't look too clever on Twitter did it ?

Andy, apologies i missed your earlier post. I don't do twitter so wasn't aware of any issues. Yes, I am on the SA committee but not the ESSG working group, so wasn't part of the meeting with the club, I don't know who attended or what it was about. I couldn't follow all of the SA monthly meeting that followed and wouldn't expect to hear anything about the ESSG meeting with the club till our next feedback session/notification, depending on what it was about and whether it was a formal meeting or not etc.
I can ask that question if you want, or anyone on twitter is free to contact the group directly or JB /Dave Kelly or even Jaz via that route.

 

[Tom Hughes]

You have moved to stage two quicker then I thought you would tbh



It's not a simple as that, as I have said I have seen first hand the creation of super fans, a group or groups that feel empowered by their involvement in their club, I have seen them lauding it over other fans, I have seen the anger of the other fans when things go wrong and the "super fans" get held responsible and I have seen the untold damage done by the whole sorry mess. Everton won't be the only club to suffer this way but the inevitablity of what will happen is clear to me.

Ironically the first thing we joked about was what type of biscuits the super fans got in the tea room to which they had access on match day, I'm laughing at essentially the same joke being the first made here as well

Super fans....? Biscuits?

I've no idea what you're talking about tbh or who this football club is that you're talking about.

This is a simple independent working group made up of members from multiple supporters groups and organisations and is an interim arrangement tasked with one job only........ As far as I know they have had no matchday privileges at all.

If you have a problem with the notion of an elected fan director and/or prefer the status quo, perhaps you can start a counter campaign mentioning your experiences "superfans" at this other club and survey our fans to support your stance with data etc.

However, you probably should remember that this process is a national one in response to the breakaway league and football governance in general. It may even be mandated by government legislation.... I haven't read the MPs report, so I'm not sure where they are up to with that.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Nobody knows mate, except @Tom Hughes and he ain't telling.

Mister J, I posted this on Thursday morning as a quick summary but some appear to be hard of hearing on here:

"Apologies gents..... I don't come on this all day, everyday and was out, so I missed your replies and can't reply to them all as I've still got a dog to walk and butties to make, before another trip to London.

I've clearly stated that I am on the exec of the Shareholders association and explained its connection with the steering group.... and have not tried to hide anything and to suggest otherwise is nonsense.

I understand people's concerns about transparency etc but also know some people love a drama and a conspiracy theory and some of these ravings are laughable and inane. I don't profess to know the whole story because as I've said, my involvement has been indirect and I may have missed the odd meeting of the EFCSA. However, the simple chronology as far as I know it is as follows: All clubs have had to react to the governance issue following the attempted breakaway by the infamous 6. They knew that the Government was looking at it and new legislation might even be in the pipeline, so they wanted to start the process to be ahead of the game. I believe the club initially just wanted the fans forum to act as a working party to look at the issue of better fan representation (on the board). The chairman of the fans forum insisted that it needed a far bigger grouping than just themselves to maintain independence of the process....... and invited representation from several registered fan groups to give a much broader discussion forum for this working party.

This working group looked at what was going on elsewhere, tried to gauge opinion using surveys and conducted workshops, feeding back results and progress to their respective groups.

The result is a simple basic broadbrush proposal to get a fan director on the board with an advisory group beneath him. I don't think any of that is particularly sinister and at the end of the day we all get to nominate and vote for the candidates. If you don't like the proposals contact them and say why. If you don't like the candidates, nominate you own. That's how the democratic process works.

As you were....."

I believe the group has its own twitter page (whatever that is) and further clarification might be available there if you are on twitter.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You have moved to stage two quicker then I thought you would tbh



It's not a simple as that, as I have said I have seen first hand the creation of super fans, a group or groups that feel empowered by their involvement in their club, I have seen them lauding it over other fans, I have seen the anger of the other fans when things go wrong and the "super fans" get held responsible and I have seen the untold damage done by the whole sorry mess. Everton won't be the only club to suffer this way but the inevitablity of what will happen is clear to me.

Ironically the first thing we joked about was what type of biscuits the super fans got in the tea room to which they had access on match day, I'm laughing at essentially the same joke being the first made here as well

Just so you're aware, in the Everton Fans Alliance Group, we're providing a rotating place for regular fans to join in and contribute so that everyone feels welcome and included. We feel that the Special Everton Real Fan position will help to keep us grounded and ensure that we represent everyone.

We are also very keen to ensure transparency in the operations of our group and so all minutes from our meetings are published on our website. The only exception is our tactical sessions and in-depth scouting reports, which I'm sure you can appreciate cannot be shared as we know fans of rival teams are regular visitors to these forums and we don't want them getting inside knowledge of the development the team will be taking as a result of our input.

 

[NeroCeasar]

Super fans....? Biscuits?

I've no idea what you're talking about tbh or who this football club is that you're talking about.

This is a simple independent working group made up of members from multiple supporters groups and organisations and is an interim arrangement tasked with one job only........ As far as I know they have had no matchday privileges at all.

If you have a problem with the notion of an elected fan director and/or prefer the status quo, perhaps you can start a counter campaign mentioning your experiences "superfans" at this other club and survey our fans to support your stance with data etc.

However, you probably should remember that this process is a national one in response to the breakaway league and football governance in general. It may even be mandated by government legislation.... I haven't read the MPs report, so I'm not sure where they are up to with that.

Don't worry about it so. As I said Everton aren't the only club who will face these problems but if the government answer to the super league is fan involvement in clubs then it's a bad idea. Your government's track record on ideas is pretty poor, I'd suggest this is another one that long term will cause more issues then it will solve

 

[lancs blue]

I can imagine the group getting involved in a round of soggy biscuit before they start talking.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Don't worry about it so. As I said Everton aren't the only club who will face these problems but if the government answer to the super league is fan involvement in clubs then it's a bad idea. Your government's track record on ideas is pretty poor, I'd suggest this is another one that long term will cause more issues then it will solve

Government ideas? It is not just the government's idea though, is it? This has been a "Fan-led Review" of football governance..... Which you can now download.

You prefer the status quo and a situation whereby clubs can try to form a break away league against the will of their fanbases?

As regards fan involvement causing more issues than it will solve, what is your view of the German model with its history of greater fan involvement, lower ticket prices, better facilities and transport and the highest average attendances world football.....and/or other fan ownership schemes with many famous clubs in the world being owned entirely by their members?

As I said, if you feel strongly about preserving the current status quo and can present evidence to support your stance from your experiences etc, then you are free to form a counter campaign for no fan representation on the boards.

 

[Tom Hughes]

I can imagine the group getting involved in a round of soggy biscuit before they start talking.

Strange obsession with biscuits in some of these posts.

I'm not surprised you can imagine..... you've a vivid imagination haven't you? You even imagined that someone who claimed to be a big Evertonian of over 35 yrs and season ticket holder for decades would have no idea who Dr France (AKA Dr Everton) was.

Hoist by your own Petard sir.... keep digging though, or should I have said keep dunking?

 

[tommye]

I can see why Tom isn't involved with the fan group. His condescending tone would be a complete no-go from the off.

 

[nsno-chris]

Strange obsession with biscuits in some of these posts.

I'm not surprised you can imagine..... you've a vivid imagination haven't you? You even imagined that someone who claimed to be a big Evertonian of over 35 yrs and season ticket holder for decades would have no idea who Dr France (AKA Dr Everton) was.

Hoist by your own Petard sir.... keep digging though, or should I have said keep dunking?

Stop being a massive nob because someone doesn’t no who Dr France is.

 

[AndyC]

Andy, apologies i missed your earlier post. I don't do twitter so wasn't aware of any issues. Yes, I am on the SA committee but not the ESSG working group, so wasn't part of the meeting with the club, I don't know who attended or what it was about. I couldn't follow all of the SA monthly meeting that followed and wouldn't expect to hear anything about the ESSG meeting with the club till our next feedback session/notification, depending on what it was about and whether it was a formal meeting or not etc.
I can ask that question if you want, or anyone on twitter is free to contact the group directly or JB /Dave Kelly or even Jaz via that route.

To be fair Tom, I’ve already contacted John Blain and am arranging a meeting with him.

 

[sageyefc]

Like the stonecutters this lot, do they have a secret handshake

 

[tommye]

Stop being a massive nob because someone doesn’t no who Dr France is.

*know