Current Affairs Environmental Stuff

[tsubaki]

I don't trust elites to not fly though. They'd get round it by saying it's for 'work'. It would essentially be a ban on the working class.

TBF I am not sure there is that much wrong with that (an effective ban on most people flying) - I mean, for the UK at least a good proportion of those flights are to sample a homogenized budget holiday experience in one of a small number of places where people don't really leave the UK except in a literal sense and which is all mostly paid for by indebtedness; its basically exploitative itself but with extra sunburn and getting wasted added to it.

Travel to go and see relatives would be the biggest problem, though again that is something that did use to happen before cheap flights were a thing.

 

[grandjoeblue]

TBF I am not sure there is that much wrong with that (an effective ban on most people flying) - I mean, for the UK at least a good proportion of those flights are to sample a homogenized budget holiday experience in one of a small number of places where people don't really leave the UK except in a literal sense and which is all mostly paid for by indebtedness; its basically exploitative itself but with extra sunburn and getting wasted added to it.

Travel to go and see relatives would be the biggest problem, though again that is something that did use to happen before cheap flights were a thing.

Essentially banning holidays would have a horrendous impact on mental health. Definitely not the answer.

 

[tsubaki]

Essentially banning on holidays would have a horrendous impact on mental health. Definitely not the answer.

No it wouldn't, and it isn't a ban on holidays - you could still go on the train abroad, or take a boat, or holiday in the UK.

 

[grandjoeblue]

No it wouldn't, and it isn't a ban on holidays - you could still go on the train abroad, or take a boat, or holiday in the UK.

It definitely would, a lot of people work hard in jobs they hate to go away once or twice a year. It keeps them going. Getting the train abroad is hardly practical unless you live in London and UK holidays are generally terrible and extremely expensive.

 

[arminisgod]

No it wouldn't, and it isn't a ban on holidays - you could still go on the train abroad, or take a boat, or holiday in the UK.

How on earth are u getting to a Greek island on a train ffs. How long do u think people get off? A boat?!?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

No it wouldn't, and it isn't a ban on holidays - you could still go on the train abroad, or take a boat, or holiday in the UK.

It would probably be more equitable to ban first class tickets as due to the space they have, they're far more costly environmentally than those in economy, but then the financial viability of the airlines is largely dependent on the first class tickets.

 

[tsubaki]

How on earth are u getting to a Greek island on a train ffs. How long do u think people get off? A boat?!?

Yes, so let’s destroy the planet because *checks notes* capitalism only gives people a paltry amount of leave with which to try and undo the mental anguish capitalist models of work causes them.

 

[tsubaki]

It would probably be more equitable to ban first class tickets as due to the space they have, they're far more costly environmentally than those in economy, but then the financial viability of the airlines is largely dependent on the first class tickets.

It would be more equitable, but as was pointed out they’d (the wealthy) still be the people doing all of the flying. I’d rather see it cut down to a minimum.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It would be more equitable, but as was pointed out they’d (the wealthy) still be the people doing all of the flying. I’d rather see it cut down to a minimum.

I'm not sure that will fly (so to speak).

 

[tsubaki]

It definitely would, a lot of people work hard in jobs they hate to go away once or twice a year. It keeps them going. Getting the train abroad is hardly practical unless you live in London and UK holidays are generally terrible and extremely expensive.

None of those things need to be true though. UK holidays are only expensive because all the cheaper end of the market got destroyed by the rise of the package holiday, leaving only the high-end stuff behind (house price rises have also played a part). It isn't like they are all terrible either.

Likewise, what is seen as being “practical” only became defined as such because we’ve had years of subsidised air travel. Yes, travelling to Corfu or Mallorca by boat (or car then boat, or train then boat) would not be as quick or as easy but people used to do it (indeed many people still do).

 

[grandjoeblue]

None of those things need to be true though. UK holidays are only expensive because all the cheaper end of the market got destroyed by the rise of the package holiday, leaving only the high-end stuff behind (house price rises have also played a part). It isn't like they are all terrible either.

Likewise, what is seen as being “practical” only became defined as such because we’ve had years of subsidised air travel. Yes, travelling to Corfu or Mallorca by boat (or car then boat, or train then boat) would not be as quick or as easy but people used to do it (indeed many people still do).

Subsidised air travel?

 

[tsubaki]

Subsidised air travel?

You don't pay VAT on a plane ticket (you do on a train or coach ticket); airlines don't pay fuel duty on aviation fuel (rail firms and hauliers do for their fuel, as do normal people) . The only industry-specific tax they did pay (air passenger duty) was just cut (whilst the taxes for the likes of us went up).

 

[Sassy Colombian]

It would probably be more equitable to ban first class tickets as due to the space they have, they're far more costly environmentally than those in economy, but then the financial viability of the airlines is largely dependent on the first class tickets.

I agree that would be a more equitable ban. Even better. The rich shouldn’t be allowed to fly their own planes as those practices are having a huge impact on climate change

“A 2019 study investigated the environmental impact of private jets, and the findings were beyond shocking. The report revealed that private jet travel in the U.K. alone contributes to approximately one million tonnes of CO2 emissions annually, according to the Evening Standard. That's about the same amount that a total of 450,000 cars would create in that same amount of time.

A similar study from the Common Wealth think-tank also showed there were 128,000 private jet flights between the U.K. and EU in 2018. It went on to say that private jet passengers account for 10 times as many greenhouse gas emissions as a commercial traveler, and 150 times more than train travelers.”



These studies were also conducted before covid so I imagine the figures now days are much higher. Thus pushing for a private jet ban on the rich is a needed measure that I wish governments would really take into consideration.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

You don't pay VAT on a plane ticket (you do on a train or coach ticket); airlines don't pay fuel duty on aviation fuel (rail firms and hauliers do for their fuel, as do normal people) . The only industry-specific tax they did pay (air passenger duty) was just cut (whilst the taxes for the likes of us went up).

And Gatwick Airport and to a lesser extent Heathrow Airport are right now fighting hard to be able to bring in second runway and third runway respectively they have always full use to be able to vastly increase capacity for lots more flights in the future.

Yes but, but no but but it will bring in more money and jobs of course...

It's laughable that business and individual wants/demands are in direct opposition to all the talk about cutting back.

 

[grandjoeblue]

And Gatwick Airport and to a lesser extent Heathrow Airport are right now fighting hard to be able to bring in second runway and third runway respectively they have always full use to be able to vastly increase capacity for lots more flights in the future.

Yes but, but no but but it will bring in more money and jobs of course...

It's laughable that business and individual wants/demands are in direct opposition to all the talk about cutting back.

In fairness adding new runways to the two busiest airports in the country right by a densely populated city isn't overly controversial. Air travel is not going to stop overnight.

Just as a comparison China plan to build another 150 airports in the country by 2035.

They need to improve the engines etc but air travel will be required for centuries moving forward.