Current Affairs Environmental Stuff

[Bruce Wayne]

Of course not. But there is a video of an ambulance which was a) clearly held up by the queue, b) still moving slowly as police physically forced the protestors to move for it and c) it puts its lights and siren on straight away so it has to get somewhere fast.

10 million people die each year from air pollution, which is perhaps the point these people are making?

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

You clearly don't think 10 million people dying is as important as whomever that ambulance was getting to. I guess their message is that it should be as important, if not more so.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

I’ve said it before, but people get more irate at some protesters blocking a road than things like single use plastics, dumping of raw sewage or deforestation. Future generations will look more kindly on the people who tried to make their environment better to live in than the people who just let it happen.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I’ve said it before, but people get more irate at some protesters blocking a road than things like single use plastics, dumping of raw sewage or deforestation. Future generations will look more kindly on the people who tried to make their environment better to live in than the people who just let it happen.

I can empathise to an extent as it always seems more positive to amplify people like Ellen Macarthur or the many scientists who have done so much to make solar power progress in terms of both efficiencies and cost in recent years than those whose sole purpose is to obstruct.

Would Extinction Rebellion do more on plastics than, for instance, the Plastics Pact? Given the aim of the group around insulation, did they club together to provide actual financial backing to projects like this? https://www.seedrs.com/biohm

 

[JimmyJeffers]

I can empathise to an extent as it always seems more positive to amplify people like Ellen Macarthur or the many scientists who have done so much to make solar power progress in terms of both efficiencies and cost in recent years than those whose sole purpose is to obstruct.

Would Extinction Rebellion do more on plastics than, for instance, the Plastics Pact? Given the aim of the group around insulation, did they club together to provide actual financial backing to projects like this? https://www.seedrs.com/biohm

For sure and that’s more of a valid point. It’s more the ire they cause that I find bemusing.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

For sure and that’s more of a valid point. It’s more the ire they cause that I find bemusing.

I do wonder if these groups (inc Greenpeace, FoE et al) consider whether their protests actually work or not. I know Washington State did some research last year (https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2378023120925949) and (perhaps expectedly) found that while it can produce a positive response among Democrats, it's not effective among Republicans, and I do wonder whether any intentional or unintentional association between environmentalists and left wingers hinders the movement as a whole, especially when conservatives are in government as it makes what should be a bipartisan issue anything but.

 

[tsubaki]

I do wonder if these groups (inc Greenpeace, FoE et al) consider whether their protests actually work or not. I know Washington State did some research last year (https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2378023120925949) and (perhaps expectedly) found that while it can produce a positive response among Democrats, it's not effective among Republicans, and I do wonder whether any intentional or unintentional association between environmentalists and left wingers hinders the movement as a whole, especially when conservatives are in government as it makes what should be a bipartisan issue anything but.

TBF it’s never going to be effective on some people because the media those people consume shape how people view any topic, however clear that issue is.

There is no better example of that than BLM of course, which when viewed on just the facts (especially just on George Floyd’s murder) received overwhelming public support from most sections of society until Fox et al applied their spin to it, and now it’s Marxist, anti-white and is coming for your statues and history. This weekend even HM Queen Elizabeth apparently became a woke traitor, presumably tearing down images of herself.

 

[BlueToff]

Not really - for a start, if I was nice and well off then chances are I would have a car, most people who aren’t nice and well off in London don’t have one.

Secondly places near / surrounding London do have good public transport links as well, it’s not like you get to the M25 and the railway ends.

You appear to be arguing from the point of own-car travel being vital. It might be for some, but they will be in a very small minority. Most people in the UK do have alternatives and, with help, could use them.

Sorry, I wasn’t meaning to paint it out that you were some millionaire cause you happen to live in London. My point was, you’re comfortable with that lifestyle and don’t need a car for what you do.

you live in a genuine fantasy world if you think having a car isn’t vital for a lot of people, though

if I lived in London, or Manchester and generally stuck to the city, then of course I wouldn’t use a car. But I like the benefits of not living in a big city, and even though where I’m from is actually very handy for public transport, it is necessary that I have a car. But I don’t travel for work anymore, I’m lucky that I don’t have to. When I did, I was doing shifts that would often finish at 12am/1am, when no trains run back from Leeds and there’s maybe one night bus - it’d also add an extra two hours onto my day, so I’d drive

 

[BlueToff]

10 million people die each year from air pollution, which is perhaps the point these people are making?

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

You clearly don't think 10 million people dying is as important as whomever that ambulance was getting to. I guess their message is that it should be as important, if not more so.

It was a point about insulated social housing (a good cause I’m sure).

Of course I think 10m people dying a year is important. I’m not going to go around insisting people shouldn’t have vehicles unless it’s absolutely 100% vital and can be proved essential to how they live.

I don’t live in London or a sprawling metropolis with excellent transport links. I don’t live in the middle of nowhere either like, I got by without driving when I was younger but now I do drive. I also, as you know, am a keen cyclist. I work from home now so my car is basically my freedom for doing what I want to do when I can do it, whether that’s popping round to a mate’s house or going the shop or going to the match on a day I won’t be drinking.

These people were just being tossers and have rightly been apprehended

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

I’ve said it before, but people get more irate at some protesters blocking a road than things like single use plastics, dumping of raw sewage or deforestation. Future generations will look more kindly on the people who tried to make their environment better to live in than the people who just let it happen.

Probably several hundred million deaths in G7 countries away from the point we will see environmental protesters as a suffragette movement.

No doubt in time they will be heralded as hero's and the future will celebrate a distant descendant.

Nothing meaningful has changed, we are still passing our emissions over to China and such like to build products cheaply then sold to us at a premium.

Until we start manufacturing and getting about our lives in sustainable way the majority can afford all the chat all the protest is piddling in the wind.

 

[Simon Buttle]

It was a point about insulated social housing (a good cause I’m sure).

Of course I think 10m people dying a year is important. I’m not going to go around insisting people shouldn’t have vehicles unless it’s absolutely 100% vital and can be proved essential to how they live.

I don’t live in London or a sprawling metropolis with excellent transport links. I don’t live in the middle of nowhere either like, I got by without driving when I was younger but now I do drive. I also, as you know, am a keen cyclist. I work from home now so my car is basically my freedom for doing what I want to do when I can do it, whether that’s popping round to a mate’s house or going the shop or going to the match on a day I won’t be drinking.

These people were just being tossers and have rightly been apprehended

Just to give you an idea though, I live in Sussex (so not that far from London) and Public Transport down here is dreadful. The trains (Southern) most of them 6 per hr are geared towards going to and from London and there are only 2 per hr that service the actual South Coast mainline. The buses are very random and because it's quite countrified round here in certain areas it's 1 per hour (if you are lucky) not great considering there is a lot of older people down here who don't drive and rely on them to get to places. I do get what the protestors are saying and fully support it as it's a very important topic (have done the whole eco warrior/animal rights thing when I was in my early twenties) but until we have a vastly improved public transport setup in this country (outside of London) then the car will be king, regardless of whether they are petrol, hybrids, or electrics.

 

[BlueToff]

Just to give you an idea though, I live in Sussex (so not that far from London) and Public Transport down here is dreadful. The trains (Southern) most of them 6 per hr are geared towards going to and from London and there are only 2 per hr that service the actual South Coast mainline. The buses are very random and because it's quite countrified round here in certain areas it's 1 per hour (if you are lucky) not great considering there is a lot of older people down here who don't drive and rely on them to get to places. I do get what the protestors are saying and fully support it as it's a very important topic (have done the whole eco warrior/animal rights thing when I was in my early twenties) but until we have a vastly improved public transport setup in this country (outside of London) then the car will be king, regardless of whether they are petrol, hybrids, or electrics.

I think tbf these protestors were campaigning for something totally different, they just decided to go about it this way. That’s their freedom to choose it and it’s my freedom to call it out

I also think that what certain posters are saying is that there should be better transport links in places outside the big cities. I don’t disagree, but it’s not just suddenly going to mean people stop using cars.and ultimately if they think that would happen then it shows the difference living in a city like London for however long makes your attitude and how you view things in life. None of my mates who live in London drive, they have no need to. All of my mates who live up here drive because we have to. And waiting around for a bus or train when they aren’t every 2-5 minutes (and couldn’t be, logistically, to suit the size of the population) or even necessarily close to your home or office just isn’t feasible for people

 

[tsubaki]

I think tbf these protestors were campaigning for something totally different, they just decided to go about it this way. That’s their freedom to choose it and it’s my freedom to call it out

I also think that what certain posters are saying is that there should be better transport links in places outside the big cities. I don’t disagree, but it’s not just suddenly going to mean people stop using cars.and ultimately if they think that would happen then it shows the difference living in a city like London for however long makes your attitude and how you view things in life. None of my mates who live in London drive, they have no need to. All of my mates who live up here drive because we have to. And waiting around for a bus or train when they aren’t every 2-5 minutes (and couldn’t be, logistically, to suit the size of the population) or even necessarily close to your home or office just isn’t feasible for people

Of course waiting half an hour or upwards for a bus or a train is feasible.

Loads of people do it already, even with the joke of a public transport service we have now.

 

[BlueToff]

Of course waiting half an hour or upwards for a bus or a train is feasible.

Loads of people do it already, even with the joke of a public transport service we have now.

To do what though?
When I worked in Leeds I would often get the train in if I wasn’t having to finish late. But it would be a pain I didn’t need and added two hours onto my day for the sake of a 20/30 min drive. Most people going to Leeds from Wakefield at rush hour pre-pandemic would use public transport.

before I could drive, I always got the train in. I was lucky that I lived, at that time, a 15-min walk from the station. Used to do it to Manchester every day for a year too.

I don’t even get this point you’re making? We should only be allowed a car if we can prove it’s vital to us?

 

[tsubaki]

To do what though?
When I worked in Leeds I would often get the train in if I wasn’t having to finish late. But it would be a pain I didn’t need and added two hours onto my day for the sake of a 20/30 min drive. Most people going to Leeds from Wakefield at rush hour pre-pandemic would use public transport.

before I could drive, I always got the train in. I was lucky that I lived, at that time, a 15-min walk from the station. Used to do it to Manchester every day for a year too.

I don’t even get this point you’re making? We should only be allowed a car if we can prove it’s vital to us?

Well for a start you said it wasn’t feasible not to have a car for many people, though I rather suspect it is (as it is for you seemingly) more about it is convenient for people to own one (because of the time they think they’d save by owning one) rather than it being not feasible to not own one.

As to being “allowed a car” - yes, people should be encouraged to not own them and should as far as possible be able to live their lives without them.

Will that leave you queuing a bit longer? Yes. Will it improve the air we all breathe? Also yes.

 

[BlueToff]

Well for a start you said it wasn’t feasible not to have a car for many people, though I rather suspect it is (as it is for you seemingly) more about it is convenient for people to own one (because of the time they think they’d save by owning one) rather than it being not feasible to not own one.

As to being “allowed a car” - yes, people should be encouraged to not own them and should as far as possible be able to live their lives without them.

Will that leave you queuing a bit longer? Yes. Will it improve the air we all breathe? Also yes.

Fantasy world ultimately unless we could all have door-to-door transport, people are going to want and need personal vehicles

use an example of me today - I’m currently in hospital, waiting to have a tooth out

I worked at 7am this morning until 11. Had to be at the hospital in Pontefract, a 20min drive away from mine, for half 12.

I used to have to get the bus to here for college, so I know how long it takes. I wouldn’t have got here and have been able to work this morning. As it was I’ve managed to get a half shift in (which was needed as the hospital only rang me on Thursday to book this op in, and I was already scheduled to work a full shift), and was here in time for my operation.

Having a car makes a lot of things easier in my situation. If I lived in a city centre, then things would be a lot different. But I don’t. Conversely, the air pollution where I live is nowhere near as bad as London, or Leeds, or Manchester. But people choose where to live based on work, family needs, lifestyle or just preference, don’t they