Current Affairs Environmental Stuff

[Toffee_Loaf]

THERE WONT BE A WORLD SUITABLE FOR OUR INDUSTRIAL BASE IF WE KEEP IGNORING THE ENVIRONMENT. Why are you so dense? Honestly. Why?

Just for you sugar.

But there are some surprises in the Volvo analysis, which follows ISO standards for life cycle assessment and includes well-to-tank and tank-to-wheel calculations for both gasoline and electricity. It’s based on a cradle-to-grave life cycle of just 124,000 miles—likely undercutting the actual lifetime of Volvos in the U.S. As the carmaker finds: “Materials production and refining, battery module production and manufacturing at Volvo Cars for a C40 Recharge results in nearly 70% higher GHG emissions compared to an XC40 ICE (E5 petrol).

The Volvo analysis also shows a break-even point, at which the advantages of the “use phase” outweigh the extra footprint of manufacturing vs. gasoline. For the C40 Recharge, it’s seen at about 48,000 miles with the current EU power mix—or just 30,000 miles if it were charged with wind energy.

Battery module production, materials production, and manufacturing itself are together 70% higher in greenhouse gas emissions versus the gasoline version of the XC40, the assessment concludes. Much is made of the high carbon footprint of lithium-ion battery packs—as it should. However the Volvo paper underscores an aspect that might not be emphasized enough: the tremendous carbon footprint of aluminum manufacture. Aluminum has about as much of a footprint, amounting to about 30% of the total materials-related footprint, as battery modules in the C40 Recharge.

Although this example is specific to one brand and one vehicle, Volvo’s methodology—and many of its conclusions—extends to nearly all EVs. Yes, that includes the Tesla you might be considering—or even the mammoth GMC Hummer EV.

Right? So we are going to cut loads of jobs, send them all to China, then import cars from China (because Everton ones will be naff). We are going to do all that with what are likely to be more expensive, less reliable cars and best of all they aren't even as environmentally friendly as a petrol car? Did I get that right? You have to do 40000 miles to break even (at which time you no doubt are well on the way to needing a new battery for an EV car with all the costs of maintaining it with specialist manufacturers).

So even though we emit <1%, we are going to make this enormous sacrifice on the back of an analysis that shows there's hardly any savings to emissions at all... I salute your vision for the country, to make us poorer, weaker and less productive. The politicians of this age are breathtaking in their stupidity to embrace this foolishness.

 

[orchard]

Just for you sugar.



Right? So we are going to cut loads of jobs, send them all to China, then import cars from China (because Everton ones will be naff). We are going to do all that with what are likely to be more expensive, less reliable cars and best of all they aren't even as environmentally friendly as a petrol car? Did I get that right? You have to do 40000 miles to break even (at which time you no doubt are well on the way to needing a new battery for an EV car with all the costs of maintaining it with specialist manufacturers).

So even though we emit <1%, we are going to make this enormous sacrifice on the back of an analysis that shows there's hardly any savings to emissions at all... I salute your vision for the country, to make us poorer, weaker and less productive. The politicians of this age are breathtaking in their stupidity to embrace this foolishness.

ffs

 

[Toffee_Loaf]

ffs

Haha, I did actually write E.V (for electric vehicles) without the dot and it's converted the word to Everton

 

[orchard]

Haha, I did actually right E.V without the dot and it's converted the word to Everton

Thought that was a bit wigan, but that 1pc trope needs swerving too you bad ted.

 

[tsubaki]

Right? So we are going to cut loads of jobs, send them all to China, then import cars from China (because Everton ones will be naff). We are going to do all that with what are likely to be more expensive, less reliable cars and best of all they aren't even as environmentally friendly as a petrol car? Did I get that right? You have to do 40000 miles to break even (at which time you no doubt are well on the way to needing a new battery for an EV car with all the costs of maintaining it with specialist manufacturers).

So even though we emit <1%, we are going to make this enormous sacrifice on the back of an analysis that shows there's hardly any savings to emissions at all... I salute your vision for the country, to make us poorer, weaker and less productive. The politicians of this age are breathtaking in their stupidity to embrace this foolishness.

Or we could just further reduce the use of cars (of whatever kind), which would entail a much lower level of sacrifices and has a considerable amount of benefits (better health, better fitness, less spending on infrastructure to support cars, less personal spending, lower fuel prices).

There would be a boost to the local environment as well, as anyone who lived in London during COVID would be able to make a futile attempt to explain to you.

 

[Hinchcliffe's Corner]

Or we could just further reduce the use of cars (of whatever kind), which would entail a much lower level of sacrifices and has a considerable amount of benefits (better health, better fitness, less spending on infrastructure to support cars, less personal spending, lower fuel prices).

There would be a boost to the local environment as well, as anyone who lived in London during COVID would be able to make a futile attempt to explain to you.

Thinking outside the box and using using fuels that will run out in 50 years is too hard for this nugget.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

Just for you sugar.



Right? So we are going to cut loads of jobs, send them all to China, then import cars from China (because Everton ones will be naff). We are going to do all that with what are likely to be more expensive, less reliable cars and best of all they aren't even as environmentally friendly as a petrol car? Did I get that right? You have to do 40000 miles to break even (at which time you no doubt are well on the way to needing a new battery for an EV car with all the costs of maintaining it with specialist manufacturers).

So even though we emit <1%, we are going to make this enormous sacrifice on the back of an analysis that shows there's hardly any savings to emissions at all... I salute your vision for the country, to make us poorer, weaker and less productive. The politicians of this age are breathtaking in their stupidity to embrace this foolishness.

Head's starting to go.

 

[verreauxi]

It's equally boring for those of us who think having fru fru heat pumps, windmills and electric cars will change a single thing. How a country with as many problems as ours can worry about such stupid things despite being responsible for <1% of emissions is farcical. It will cost the country a fortune, put the poor further into fuel poverty. If you really want to make a difference for your kids and future generations, pass them on some money and advice about their careers.

I love how things are moving along in this thread at a good clip and then this Toffee-loaf clown comes in and drops a smelly plopper of right-wing cut-n-paste sound-bytes.

Oh, and regarding his quote above, let's just remind ourselves of this nugget:

I think Rittenhouse is a role model for young men, the kind of citizen I would love my young boy to grow up to be like. Respectful, responsible and accountable. I think his treatment has been disgraceful.

 

[WA Toffee]

If the technology is so good and so reliable why do they need to ban things? Like combusion engines? Surely if electric was so much better, the products would be much cheaper and efficient. The problem is that they're not and whereas with my car if I have a problem with it I can take it to the bloke down the road to fix who is cheap; when your battery conks out or you have some other problem you will have to take it to a specialist manufacturer only, who can charge you whatever they want because only they have the right software and hardware. It's a monopoly. We're swapping reliability and competition for unknown reliability, much bigger cost and no competition. Another brilliant decision by the politicians so good at wrecking the country. Meanwhile China will simply keep on producing combusion engines and sell them to the rest of the world. We gave up one of our manufacturing strengths to make them more wealthy. I sometimes wonder if they have our leaders on a string.

Ah the old "what about my car" argument.

Sone new cars are quite fuel efficient, but they have taken over 100 years to reach that point. EV's in just a few short years have overtaken them in efficiency, even allowing for the electricity required to recharge them. Think how much more efficient they will be in 5, 10 or 20 years? And when our electricity comes from renewable sources, well, true net zero to power your car.

Now, the 1% of global emissions you have banged on about a few times, I can only assume you are referring to emissions from US vehicles and not the US as a whole, as the US contributes 14% of global emissions.

The importance of reducing that figure is that, whether we like it or not, the US is the major global leader, and if they want other countries to reduce their carbon footprint, then they have to lead by example. So even if moving from ICE to EV in the US provides a 1% direct reduction, it will pave the way for the rest of the world to put in place measures to reduce theirs too.

So while it may be convenient and easy to try and keep the discussion in a little bubble, it is extremely foolish and naive to not consider the wider implications that these changes will have

 

[sbbefc]

I'm no expert in this field. And it's just an observation with no data to back it up. But it feels like we've not had south westerly winds in a long time, months. Could it be a sign the Gulf stream is weakining? Just feels a bit unusual to me.

 

[orchard]

I'm no expert in this field. And it's just an observation with no data to back it up. But it feels like we've not had south westerly winds in a long time, months. Could it be a sign the Gulf stream is weakining? Just feels a bit unusual to me.

AMOC's fairly shattered mate. You're right, mainly N/NE for a couple of months, just changed to SW and we've had our first rain (C1mm) for over two month's, excepting C0.1mm three days ago. Been harsh on the Western UK (severe soil moisture loss), and according to a Guardian article, the Derwent was dry last week.

EDO drought map

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

AMOC's fairly shattered mate. You're right, mainly N/NE for a couple of months, just changed to SW and we've had our first rain (C1mm) for over two month's, excepting C0.1mm three days ago. Been harsh on the Western UK (severe soil moisture loss), and according to a Guardian article, the Derwent was dry last week.

EDO drought map

Yeah, drought is a major issue: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/jun/15/drought-is-on-the-verge-of-becoming-the-next-pandemic

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

I do like the conveyer belt of right leaning semi-coherent agitators that process through the CA. They never seem to get critical mass, but there's always at least one acting as a provocateur at any given time. One gets banned, out comes a successor.

 

[Prevenger17]

I do like the conveyer belt of right leaning semi-coherent agitators that process through the CA. They never seem to get critical mass, but there's always at least one acting as a provocateur at any given time. One gets banned, out comes a successor.

Yeah, it's actually a very clean system. They keep our mob of Marxist wokey leftists in check with their very clear and not at all unhinged streams of dailywire copy-pastes

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Yeah, it's actually a very clean system. They keep our mob of Marxist wokey leftists in check with their very clear and not at all unhinged streams of dailywire copy-pastes

Democracy in action. Habermas' theory of communicative action par excellence. The life world unchained.

I for one am very grateful for their insights and corrective arguments. Saves us from our own echo chamber.