Elstone on Summer transfer/Everton Finance/Ground Move etc TV Debate! etc.

[Neiler]

What concerns me is the manager has said a ) The team needs investment and b ) he hasn't had any.

What also concerns me is Moyes saying "We should be entitled to spend money, I will be pushing the board to spend more than just the Lescott money" - ignoring Moyes not gettin his own way here, its an entirely different tone than "I'll work with what I'm given" etc.

Am not surprised Moyes didn't take kindly to Elstone undermining his work.

I know your point mate, but if im honest i dont think there is massive departure in those soundbytes compared to others after different transfer windows. I found his comments around this this time last year more unsettleing then these - he had the right hump if i remember correctly.

Do i think the transfer window has made Moyes question his commitment to Everton more then in previous windows? Not really!

Do i think an overall lack of investment will eventually mean Moyes will walk? Yes.

But then there is part of me thats glad the club didnt tap lines of credit or incur more debt during the summer - thankfully i think the manager has perspective of this also and has been to his cedit paitent, how paitent he will be going into the future who knows? I prepared myself a long time ago for the day when he will be poached and just cant beleive it hasnt happened yet. But then again, in comments he made yesterday he describes himself as being at a big club.

 

[davek]

I know your point mate, but if im honest i dont think there is massive departure in those soundbytes compared to others after different transfer windows. I found his comments around this this time last year more unsettleing then these - he had the right hump if i remember correctly.

Do i think the transfer window has made Moyes question his commitment to Everton more then in previous windows? Not really!

Do i think an overall lack of investment will eventually mean Moyes will walk? Yes.

But then there is part of me thats glad the club didnt tap lines of credit or incur more debt during the summer - thankfully i think the manager has perspective of this also and has been to his cedit paitent, how paitent he will be going into the future who knows? I prepared myself a long time ago for the day when he will be poached and just cant beleive it hasnt happened yet. But then again, in comments he made yesterday he describes himself as being at a big club.

I dont think the issue is Moyes walking. The issue is that the two men in control of the fortunes of the club - one onfield, the other off-field - are not in synch on the most fundamental of things where their jobs overlap. That isn't good...not for Moyes, but for Elstone. Elstone has just made an enormous error of judgement. He's attempted to cover his own tracks concerning statements he made earlier in the summer transfer window about backing the manager finacially by grasping at straws and using 'undisclosed amounts' for transfers as a desperate attempt at an explanation to square things with 'the customers'. Moyes is more important to Everton than Elstone. The CEO better be on best grovelling behaviour for the rest of his time at EFC I reckon or he'll be out the door.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I've been offline all weekend but wanted to make a public vote of thanks to Neiler for trying to maintain a degree of common sense. We're essentially battling to maintain this place as the place for people happy to support Everton. You see the grumblers are more than happy to grumble, its what they like best so you'll never beat them in a grumbling contest. Sadly most of the optimists by their very nature have better things to do than spend their time grumbling on a forum. So by vitrue of persistence the grumblers will take over the soul of GOT.

 

[davek]

I've been offline all weekend but wanted to make a public vote of thanks to Neiler for trying to maintain a degree of common sense. We're essentially battling to maintain this place as the place for people happy to support Everton. You see the grumblers are more than happy to grumble, its what they like best so you'll never beat them in a grumbling contest. Sadly most of the optimists by their very nature have better things to do than spend their time grumbling on a forum. So by vitrue of persistence the grumblers will take over the soul of GOT.

Stop grumbling.

 

[Goat]

Baffling, we are frigging 19th, no midfield, our CEO and Manager not singing from the same hymm sheet and he says stop grumbling.

I really think we can win the league, its great being skint, I love Bill Kenwright, I might stick my head in the oven to show my love for him.

Hows that?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Is it really so different from last year? I wonder if we rewound the clock to the aftermath of our 3-0 defeat to Portsmouth last season and judged the reactions then.

We're skint, you won't hear any complaints on that from me, it's there in black and white. I've asked many times for what you would do to change that. The reality is so much harder than the rhetoric. If we can't offer any constructive criticism then we can't change diddly, and if we can't change diddly then it seems a rather pointless act to come on here acting all miserable. You may as well try to piss into the wind.

 

[Brownie]

I'll prefer to be emotional about things I can't affect thanks Bruce. Wouldn't be much fun being a fan otherwise.

 

[Goat]

If im unhappy with the way things are going, surely I should be allowed to express that view? Whether it will change anything is unimportant. Some would say your constant grumbling about grumbling is tiresome.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

See what I mean? I'm already thinking that I simply can't be bothered, life is too short to be spent on here moaning about stuff like this, and if others of a similar disposition feel the same then the board will be left to those guys that love to moan, which'd be a real shame given the heritage of GOT. No doubt the defeat today will signal a barrage of knee jerk reactions, just as the annual defeat away to Fulham always does.

 

[davek]

Is it really so different from last year? I wonder if we rewound the clock to the aftermath of our 3-0 defeat to Portsmouth last season and judged the reactions then.

We're skint, you won't hear any complaints on that from me, it's there in black and white. I've asked many times for what you would do to change that. The reality is so much harder than the rhetoric. If we can't offer any constructive criticism then we can't change diddly, and if we can't change diddly then it seems a rather pointless act to come on here acting all miserable. You may as well try to piss into the wind.

You've had constructive criticism and you choose to ignore it. You've been presented with alternative funding scenarios and take the view that a) you dont like the implications of a takeover, and b ) a share issue wouldn't be taken up at Everton. Then you yourself put up the prospect of a bond scheme that wouldn't involve the dilution of ownership control...and you dismiss your own funding alternative!!!

I think you need to rethink your defensive strategy, tbh.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I don't believe a share issue is a goer as football stocks have a long history of stinking the markets out. I very much doubt any institutional investors would touch it with a bargepole. Endowment funds work well for universities because alumni are a natural market for fundraising. Whether fans are a similar market given the high 'investment' they already make via watching the team live and on tv I don't know. It could work and I'm always up for trying things out but you must admit that it is a very uncertain proposition and certainly not one that has a track record in sporting terms. After all, one could regard owning a share in a club as a similar proposition to donating to an endowment and share issues failed to raise enormous sums for the clubs that tried them.

 

[davek]

I don't believe a share issue is a goer as football stocks have a long history of stinking the markets out. I very much doubt any institutional investors would touch it with a bargepole. Endowment funds work well for universities because alumni are a natural market for fundraising. Whether fans are a similar market given the high 'investment' they already make via watching the team live and on tv I don't know. It could work and I'm always up for trying things out but you must admit that it is a very uncertain proposition and certainly not one that has a track record in sporting terms. After all, one could regard owning a share in a club as a similar proposition to donating to an endowment and share issues failed to raise enormous sums for the clubs that tried them.

Institutional shareholders and club supporters aside, we have a large (900+) shareholder base that could be approached for a rights issue underwritten by the major shareholders, such as the one carried out under Johnson. That's another possibility.


The overarching point though is that no option is taken seriously and/or explored.

You cant continue to point to club accounts and say "it's all there in black and white, we're skint". That tells you nothing about initiative and the pursuit of possibilities.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's an option. I don't know much about the shareholder base to tell whether a rights issue would be viable or how much money would/could be raised by one. Typically though a rights issue is not well received by a company as highly geared as we are, although we'd be looking to fund improvements rather than alter the balance sheet so it may fair better.

I'm not sure that we know what options have been discussed though as unless they're made public it seems unlikely that we can catch wind of them. It would seem unlikely that the minutes of every board meeting would be made public.

 

[chicoazul]

He's right though, GOT has a heritage and you absolute monsters are wrecking it.

I'll stop you though as you'll rip you and make you weep to mummy if you act like melts.

points to Toffeeweb*

 

[davek]

It's an option. I don't know much about the shareholder base to tell whether a rights issue would be viable or how much money would/could be raised by one. Typically though a rights issue is not well received by a company as highly geared as we are, although we'd be looking to fund improvements rather than alter the balance sheet so it may fair better.

I'm not sure that we know what options have been discussed though as unless they're made public it seems unlikely that we can catch wind of them. It would seem unlikely that the minutes of every board meeting would be made public.

We know how dismissive they are about a rights issue because they rejected the idea with a vague response at an AGM Q&A session.