Ellis Simms

Lanolin

Player Valuation: £35m
Perhaps we should close the Marco Silva thread then?

Or in fact, the entire forum because there's people there at the club, actual professionals running the club, literally the reason they're employed. Why debate it?



Of course.

The U18s will also be miles away from U23s.
Perhaps if i'd said we shouldn't debate it that would make sense as a retort, but seeing as I didn't, it doesn't.

You're asking how you, as someone who has never seen someone play, will know whether they're any good or not. I was trying to give you a genuine answer, that you trust the coaches to make that decision, as they're employed to do. You've never seen me play either, but I assume you don't think I should get a run out to show what I can do, so the logic is pretty clearly established.

With Silva and the first team we can have opinions on them because we watch them and see what's happening. You've admitted that you've never seen Simms play, so how can you debate him? You can't. If the films thread was full of people saying 'never seen it but it should defo get an Oscar because it sounds good' then yeah i'd recommend you did close it down because it would be pointless. Same applies here.
 

GrandOldTeam

Moderator
Staff member
Perhaps if i'd said we shouldn't debate it that would make sense as a retort, but seeing as I didn't, it doesn't.

You're asking how you, as someone who has never seen someone play, will know whether they're any good or not. I was trying to give you a genuine answer, that you trust the coaches to make that decision, as they're employed to do. You've never seen me play either, but I assume you don't think I should get a run out to show what I can do, so the logic is pretty clearly established.

With Silva and the first team we can have opinions on them because we watch them and see what's happening. You've admitted that you've never seen Simms play, so how can you debate him? You can't. If the films thread was full of people saying 'never seen it but it should defo get an Oscar because it sounds good' then yeah i'd recommend you did close it down because it would be pointless. Same applies here.
I have seen him play, the official site has his highlights now on their home page etc. I have no clue if he's any good because it's the U18s...

My point is, and it's a very simple point - You can only beat what is in front of you.

"He's only 18" "He's only at U18 level"

He can't prove himself any more at that level can he?

As I mentioned you see Man Utd giving 17 year old Greenwood senior minutes in recent weeks - sometimes you only know if a player is good enough by giving them a go. Again;

He's 18, he's taking the piss at that U18 level - what is it, 43 goals in 33 games? Why isn't he now a regular in the U23s?

If he's not in contention now with that record, then what's the point of that team/league?

I don't think they should have revamped the 'Reserves'.
 

Lanolin

Player Valuation: £35m
I have seen him play, the official site has his highlights now on their home page etc. I have no clue if he's any good because it's the U18s...

My point is, and it's a very simple point - You can only beat what is in front of you.

"He's only 18" "He's only at U18 level"

He can't prove himself any more at that level can he?

As I mentioned you see Man Utd giving 17 year old Greenwood senior minutes in recent weeks - sometimes you only know if a player is good enough by giving them a go. Again;
Sorry I read the post you were quoting and thought it was you saying you'd never seen him.

You make a fair point, but my counter would be that United probably didn't just thrown Greenwood in to see if he was any good, it was more likely a decision made by their coaches that he was ready to be given game time, which is exactly what i'm advocating. Young players rarely just get thrown in to see how they do, they're usually knocking on the door for a good while first. Rashford gets used as an example at United too, but they didn't give chances to James Wilson or Will Keane who were also supposed to be good, Rashford jumped ahead of them in the queue despite being younger, because he was better than them. The coaches made that call, and they were proved right.

It's not like we're not known as a club for giving minutes to 18 year olds so if it's not happening it's probably because they don't think he's ready. As I said earlier, whether they're right or not I have no idea, but as has been mentioned in the youth team thread, he's being overlooked for England youth teams too so it would appear there's something about him that coaches don't quite like.
 

Deulofeumygod

Player Valuation: £30m
I would have him on the bench for the last couple of games so he gets a feel for Goodison and a premier game and maybe even give him ten in the Burnley game. Why not.

Seems a natural finisher. Rest we won't know yet. I am sure Brands has a keen eye on him.
 

ArtetaMagic

Player Valuation: £8m
Not sure how accurate this is but according to Transfermarkt Marcus Rashford made 14 U18-23 appearances scoring 5 youth team goals before being fast tracked to the first team....

PERFORMANCE PER CLUB
From what I remember he was brought in because of an injury crisis but hit the ground running and hasn't looked back since. Don't think anybody actually thought at the time he was anywhere near good enough. Could be wrong like..
 

stannyr

Player Valuation: £950k
From what I remember he was brought in because of an injury crisis but hit the ground running and hasn't looked back since. Don't think anybody actually thought at the time he was anywhere near good enough. Could be wrong like..
No neither do I. Which I guess here in lie proves the point that how do you know until you try? There are lots of examples in sport of the step up in standard proving beneficial.

Harry Kane too, you could argue.
 

ArtetaMagic

Player Valuation: £8m
No neither do I. Which I guess here in lie proves the point that how do you know until you try? There are lots of examples in sport of the step up in standard proving beneficial.

Harry Kane too, you could argue.
Well if they try and it fails then it could be both harmful to Everton and the lads future. When they think he's ready he'll not have any problems getting in that current squad I'd imagine.
 

Philw

Player Valuation: £70m
Call me Mad but I'll leave it to the coaching staff when it comes to developing teenage players.

Has anyone ever actually seen Ellis Simms play? If so more than two or three times?

His stats are impressive but who here knows the difference between U18 and U23 football? It could be that the plan is to bring him into the U23 fold from this summer once his season in the U18s is finished.

Calm down.
I saw him play in person away to Fulham u18s. He didn't impress me that day, but has seemed better in match highlights (obvs they're only highlights, but he hadn't really done much that was even highlight worthy when I saw him imo).

I have seen him play, the official site has his highlights now on their home page etc. I have no clue if he's any good because it's the U18s...

My point is, and it's a very simple point - You can only beat what is in front of you.

"He's only 18" "He's only at U18 level"

He can't prove himself any more at that level can he?

As I mentioned you see Man Utd giving 17 year old Greenwood senior minutes in recent weeks - sometimes you only know if a player is good enough by giving them a go. Again;
Well ideally he'd be given a decent run at u23s, but that doesn't really seem to be happening. Presumably that happened with Greenwood, or he just impressed his own coaches more than Simms has. He defo needs to step up a level tho imo, and the sooner the better.
 

coollino

Player Valuation: £70m
I saw him play in person away to Fulham u18s. He didn't impress me that day, but has seemed better in match highlights (obvs they're only highlights, but he hadn't really done much that was even highlight worthy when I saw him imo).



Well ideally he'd be given a decent run at u23s, but that doesn't really seem to be happening. Presumably that happened with Greenwood, or he just impressed his own coaches more than Simms has. He defo needs to step up a level tho imo, and the sooner the better.
HERE WE GO. NEGATIVE NELLY.
 

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