Ellis Simms

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Nymzee said:
Yeh I wasn’t comparing Brewster in terms of output but just in terms of dominated U18’s but then it turned out it was all physique. Simms is a good player and has the physique but we’ve seen from the chances he’s had at U23 level that’s all been levelled out.

I shall certainly challenge you with my Adedoyin (granted he stays) but what’s the barometer of success?
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Yeah his U23s appearances didn’t do him any favours, but in my view he had too few opportunities in a team set up to defend not attack.

I can’t see Adedoyin going off to Nigeria or League 1 to earn his fortune, so let’s use our U23s as the barometer, which one gets the most minutes, who gets the most goals, who has his own thread on GOT etc, I think we’ll know in twelve months time. Unless of course theyre both been forgotten about and overtaken by Lewis Dobbin....
 

Funnily enough I know Brewster. He was meant for big things at EFC, was earning £750 a week at a young age. Unfortunately it didn't work out for him, the lifestyle and the temptations. He went off to Chesterfield, had a good pre season but then was bombed out after the manager said he didn't try in training (during an official podcast). Loans at Southport and Chorley didn't go to plan, injuries as well, a short spell at Witton and now hes back locally in Southport playing Saturday league with his mates. Happens so often to talented players I'm afraid
 
Delial Brewster was never seen in the same category as Simms. Players going on loan to non league is usually an effort to find them a club rather than set them up for a career in top flight football and Brewster has 2 such loans.
 

Nymzee said:
Yeh I wasn’t comparing Brewster in terms of output but just in terms of dominated U18’s but then it turned out it was all physique. Simms is a good player and has the physique but we’ve seen from the chances he’s had at U23 level that’s all been levelled out.

I shall certainly challenge you with my Adedoyin (granted he stays) but what’s the barometer of success?
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Nymzee,you’re taking a big chance with that challenge.
 
Nymzee said:
All subjective.
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Very true. : I’ve seen Adedoyin, looks very good at times but doesn’t put the work or application in, looks half hearted in many games I’ve seen him, mind you he is still very young and maybe realise there is money in the game ( oodles of it) and he can get plenty of it, if he puts his mind to it.
 
Cameron Manning said:
Very true. : I’ve seen Adedoyin, looks very good at times but doesn’t put the work or application in, looks half hearted in many games I’ve seen him, mind you he is still very young and maybe realise there is money in the game ( oodles of it) and he can get plenty of it, if he puts his mind to it.
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Agreed he does look like that at times but quite often I think he's just bored of U18 football. Interesting season ahead for the U23's.
 

blueloon said:
Not a great comparison mate, Brewster had promise but never scored half of the goals of Simms, never made an u21 appearance. Part of the problem for Simms is threads like this where people have read something in the Echo/Mirror and believe he’s ready for the first team when he clearly isn’t , and I think you’re right to try to rein in people’s enthusiasm a bit.
What we don’t know is just what the club really think of him, there’s been no hype whatsoever, no end of season promotion to the subs bench for experience, I don’t even know how long his new contract is for, an indication of how highly thought of he is. Paul Tait and the coaches just worked on him all season to improve him, didn’t move him up early to the U23s just kept improving him and it paid off. The same for the U23s this season will do just fine.

I’m not a betting man , but I’ll offer my spare GOT mug in a wager, you can have Adeydoyin I’ll have Simms and we’ll see who comes out on top next season :)
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I think it's interesting he was kept down all season. I can't really work that out. It may have been deliberate, in that he has the consistency to work with a singular coach all season and develop accordingly. It may have been Unsworth just preferred Sambou, Hornby etc who are both a decent level for that age group and no harm being behind them at 17. I suspect a decision has been made, that Unsworth sort of got away with playing the team he wanted this season, that with all the other transition in the club it wasn't tackled and there were quite rigid divisions between the teams. I don't think it's done Simms too much harm though and he must be flying with confidence.
 
I’d sooner Ellis Simms in the hands of Marco
And his team than Unsworth and his team nothing against them but they play very defensive at u23s ,clearly Marco sees a player in there and I can’t wait to see him develop for us
 
The discussion about Simms is an interesting one. I've only seen him a couple of times (pre-season last season mainly) and I'll be honest I was quite underwhelmed with him (and said as much on this thread). He looked a really big strong lad, but didn't put himself about enough for me. He's absolute flown this season though and is obviously a natural finisher if nothing else.

His record is very very good. In fact I can't remember a young player having such a record in our 18's in the last 25 years. I include Rooney, Jeffers, Cadamateri, Vaughan and Anichebe in that. The lot over the park are raving about Duncan, but even he managed under half the goals Simms did. So even if you obscure the arguments about the standard etc it is a very impressive return.

Likewise I'd add, in truth it is rare for a player who's been with the reserves for longer than a season to really make the step up. The reality is, if you're good enough you are picked from straight out of the 18's, or you develop whilst on loan. It sounds a harsh statement, but there appears to be a ceiling you can get too in terms of improvement from playing under 23's football. It probably makes the strategy employed by Unsworth, of looking to build a team of lads who play under 23's in their early 20's seem an ineffective one. (I should add, at this point we could be proven wrong and I would love to be, with lads like Feeney, Gibson, Broadhead, Adedoyin etc breaking through). I can understand players having a season, but then really it needs to be loaned out, promoted to the first team or moved on.

If you look in recent years, Ball, Jeffers, Davies, Rooney, Cadamateri were all promoted straight from the 18's. Barkley was when he ws 16, as were Vaughan, Rodwell and Anichebe. It's hard to think of many who weren't (the obvious exception is the injury hit Osman who benefitted from a loan, and Hibbert). How far did lads such as Dowell, Kenny, Connolly etc benefit from longer spells in the 23's? So I don't find it so much of a stretch that Simms would be involved with the first team squad this season initially while they have a look at him and he misses out that stretch.

This seems especially so as there must be some potential that Unsworth may just be viewed as a bit of an island currently. Someone who will be tackled, but not in need or urgent attention from Brands. Lets put it this way, it wouldn't surprise me if Silva/Brands had identified Simms last season and been quite calm over his lack of progress to the 23's knowing full well he gets promoted to the first team either way.

There is lots to be said against it of course. The Brewster comparisons are fair to a point. Like Brewster (and Hallam Hope before him) there is more than a little of him relying on pace and strength to score which got found out wen getting older. You could certainly view it that way. The quantity of goals is different but the principle is fair. You could also view it and say maybe the above 2 the club were a bit unlucky with as they didn't kick on and maybe Simms will?

The comparison with Adedoyin (The Nigerian right winger) is a fair one. I really like him too and he may be one who benefits from a proper season in the 23's.
 

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