Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon
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In any case, he still chose his state over his nation.
I obviously did not call Lee a racist general, but call a spade a spade when it is a spade.
He owned slaves and he fought for the side whose rebellion was predicated, in part, by slavery.
So if a UK Nazi group marched you would think that all people who counter marched to protest it were nutters? Aren't some things so beyond the pale that any reasonable person needs to give voice to their objections to it?
You have said on here that people should listen to others points of view more and I agree with you - so why not take a pinch of your own advice and consider the views of the locals who wanted to have these statues removed? You personally do not see the harm in these monuments but with respect you neither walk past them every day, pay for their upkeep/policing nor I presume are the descendant of slaves.
As this conservative writer puts it
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/view/articles/2017-08-15/bury-the-confederacy-for-good
Those who defend Lee statues and worse often say they are motivated by “heritage not hate.” There is no reason to doubt them. But the meaning of a public symbol is not a private possession. They may tell themselves that the statue should stay to honor Lee’s (allegedly) conciliatory behavior after the war. Can they really tell black people who interpret it differently -- who look at that statue, erected in the same period as “The Birth of a Nation” and the second Ku Klux Klan, and see a public display of contempt for their dignity and rights -- that their reaction is absurd? The marching racists were vile and stupid. But they weren’t crazy to treat the statue as a vestige of white supremacy.
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This is the same Robert E Lee, who thought slavery was coming to a divine end and him being a slave owner imposing discipline on this inferior race so they could learn the ways of the western world.
Here is an excerpt from a letter to his wife:
http://fair-use.org/robert-e-lee/letter-to-his-wife-on-slavery (give it a second to load).
Aye and this article suggests the reality of Lee was quite a bit different than the common perception
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/the-myth-of-the-kindly-general-lee/529038/
I haven't read as much US history on the US civil was as I should have but Michael Sharra's depiction of Picketts run in Killer Angels had me questioning my previous assumption that Lee was even a great general.
Anyway back on topic Trump - what are the bets he has read even a chapter of Killer Angels?
Why not just read a newspaper or do a quick google search. The level of ignorance you manifest is truly shocking and hopefully just a put-on for your own amusement. You are not coming off well here. Do you actually pose these questions as "gotchya" questions...as if you've come up with something revalatory, something that would stump folks here? No one here is your monkey...do your own groundwork on determing the answer to these easily answerable questions.
Below are a few examples, visit the ACLU page for more. And you forgot LBJ.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...dbb23c75d82_story.html?utm_term=.d872edff9976
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/27/...se-lgbt-rights-military-civil-rights-act.html
https://www.propublica.org/article/...-back-civil-rights-efforts-federal-government
As an aside, having followed and debated idiotic creationists for over a decade online, your tactics are quite similar: Ask a bunch of pointless questions, shift topics within a single post, answer a post by conjoining different responses across posts, follow others poster's replies off into an eddy of circularity in order to perpetuate the "debate", use glib seemingly clever one sentence replies, try to suggest that it is an open-minded discussion, and/or try to take the high road...repeat ad nauseum.
You are not good at this. And you are also not on the side of righteousness, the same way creationists are not on the side of reality. You are defending a racist, sexist, xenophobic president who makes fun of handicap people. That makes you either a racist, sexist, xenophobe, who makes fun of handicap people. Or someone who sympathises with these sentiments. Neither one is admirable. Please re-read the previous five sentences if you have trouble understanding my motivation for responding to you. It's not about single-issue politics, or about whatever historically disputable contingency you meander towards, or about what Obama did or didn't, or about what Hilary would have done, it's about decency. I feel the same goes for any other GOT folks who have expressed support for Trump. None of them, as far as I know, have explicitly denounced the actions or statements of this racist, sexist, xenophobic president who makes fun of handicap people.
And the typical creationist retort to what I wrote above is also to be expected from you. It often comes in three-flavors: 1) The faux-aggrieved: I'm not [racist, creationist, etc.] how dare you, you're twisting my words...[insert more pseudo-indignant rage]; 2) The misunderstood-intellectual: Calm down, I was just asking probing questions because I want to know more, I'm just trying to have a civil discussion, I'm not actually defending [insert topic that you are actually defending]; or 3) Ignore my post but continue talking with other members here, making sure you use retorts 1 and 2 in your responses, as well as the long-list of obfuscations provided two paragraphs above.
Maybe you'll come up with something new. But the important thing to remember is that we are most definitely not having "a discussion" about the pros and cons of a president who is an on-record racist, sexist, xenophobe who makes fun of handicap people.
Is Robert E Lee now to be expunged from American history, or at least are any positive references to him removed?
Are re-runs of programmes like the Dukes of Hazzard, with the car named after the General and the Stars and Bars emblazoned on the hood and Dixie blaring out every time Bo honked the horn to be dropped from the TV schedules in case they offend anyone?
And what about the Native Americans?
General George A Custer is an American icon and there are several statues erected in his honor.
But the reality is he was a rabid, Indian hating racist whose mission was to rid the Great Plains of the Indians, and his methods included attacking villages and murdering every man, woman and child within.
If I was a Native American I would be looking to have those statues removed.
Now, I write this as a man whom would have gone on the barricades with the good guys in Charlottesville and fought them good ol' boys to the best of his ability.
I am just wondering though, why a statue that has stood for nigh on a century has suddenly become the frontline in the battle to wrest the USA from Trump's deathly grip.
Are re-runs of programmes like the Dukes of Hazzard, with the car named after the General and the Stars and Bars emblazoned on the hood and Dixie blaring out every time Bo honked the horn to be dropped from the TV schedules in case they offend anyone?
And what about the Native Americans?
General George A Custer is an American icon and there are several statues erected in his honor.
But the reality is he was a rabid, Indian hating racist whose mission was to rid the Great Plains of the Indians, and his methods included attacking villages and murdering every man, woman and child within.
If I was a Native American I would be looking to have those statues removed.
Now, I write this as a man whom would have gone on the barricades with the good guys in Charlottesville and fought them good ol' boys to the best of his ability.
I am just wondering though, why a statue that has stood for nigh on a century has suddenly become the frontline in the battle to wrest the USA from Trump's deathly grip.
NeroCeasar
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Congito ergo sum
Robert E Lee has a national memorial at Arlington House
He has a statue at Gettysburg.
There are a myriad number of other statues, schools, highways, holidays, universities named after him (here is a partial list https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlington_House,_The_Robert_E._Lee_Memorial). There are countless books about him and Gettysburg is taught about in school.
There is zero, zilch, nada chance that Robert E Lee (for good or for ill) will be expunged from US history.
As for why this particular statue of his had become a frontline on the discussion about Trump it is probably because there was a domestic terrorist incident killing three and injuring many others that resulted from protests about its removal - that tends to bring focus on an issue , especially when the president says that there were many fine people among the white supremacists objecting to the removal.
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Some good news
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