Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

[LinekersLegs]

Pretty much nailed on that he would want to at least one of those judging by what I read.

But can he actually just do that? Like just on his say so?

My understanding is that he can launch any military attack he wants, just that he has to come up with a pretext that conforms to the War Powers act.
"It provides that the U.S. President can send U.S. Armed Forces into action abroad only by declaration of war by Congress, "statutory authorization," or in case of "a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.

The War Powers Resolution requires the President to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30-day withdrawal period, without a Congressional authorization for use of military force (AUMF) or a declaration of war by the United States. The resolution was passed by two-thirds of Congress, overriding the veto of the bill from President Nixon."

I don't think he has as much autonomy with trade but, like the admin is currently trying to do with healthcare, I believe there are ways they can undermine agreements through department action/inaction and executive orders on specific items like tariffs.

 

[roydo]

War, yes; trade, probably not.

So no recourse to the UN? The senate/congress? Would/could a General or Submarine commander over ride him?

Crikey

*stacks up on soup*

 

[roydo]

My understanding is that he can launch any military attack he wants, just that he has to come up with a pretext that conforms to the War Powers act.
"It provides that the U.S. President can send U.S. Armed Forces into action abroad only by declaration of war by Congress, "statutory authorization," or in case of "a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.

The War Powers Resolution requires the President to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30-day withdrawal period, without a Congressional authorization for use of military force (AUMF) or a declaration of war by the United States. The resolution was passed by two-thirds of Congress, overriding the veto of the bill from President Nixon."

I don't think he has as much autonomy with trade but, like the admin is currently trying to do with healthcare, I believe there are ways they can undermine agreements through department action/inaction and executive orders on specific items like tariffs.

So drilled down, he cant be the first to fire, without congress saying Yes then?

 

[abelard]

Would/could a General or Submarine commander over ride him?

If he ordered a nuclear strike? It's an interesting question. A different President's order to put an end to the world as we know it would likely go right on through. Trump might give some pause. But I'm sure he could find someone to willing to obey his orders eventually.

I agree that his impetuosity is unique - Nixon was prone to the same urges, but he was also smart, and could be more easily talked down from the ledge.

So far this has served mostly to hinder rather than advance the Republican agenda, but starting a war would be a different sort of case.

 

[abelard]

So drilled down, he cant be the first to fire, without congress saying Yes then?

No... he CAN be the first the fire, but he's then meant to seek Congressional approval afterwards, within a certain window of time.

As if a congressional resolution would matter weeks after striking or invading North Korea.

The 1973 War Powers Act was an attempt to clarify all this, because even the Vietnam War was never formally "declared" - it was officially only a "police action."

Of course, all of these constitutional and procedural niceties went right out the window within minutes after 9/11.

 

[LinekersLegs]

So drilled down, he cant be the first to fire, without congress saying Yes then?

Technically no but that "attack on US" can be interpreted very broadly and there is already suggestions that Trump has already violated the act itself. "On April 6, 2017, the United States launched 59 BGM-109 Tomahawk missiles at Shayrat airbase in Syria in response to Syria's alleged use of chemical weapons. Constitutional scholar and law professor Stephen Vladeck has noted that the strike potentially violates the War Powers Resolution.

You will not be reassured to know there are reports that your other question has also been raised by Republicans themselves.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...e-secretary-james-mattis-tackle-a7993961.html
Republican officials reportedly imagine Donald Trump's chief of staff and defence secretary have had conversations about "physically [restraining]" him if he "lunged for the nuclear football."
Gabriel Sherman, a contributing editor at New York Magazine, told MSNBC's All In with Chris Hayes a senior republican had told him they imagined conversations between General John Kellyand James Mattis about what to do if Mr Trump attempted to launch a nuclear strike.

Mr Sherman said: “I just want to put into context a conversation that I had with a very prominent Republican today, who literally was saying that they imagine General Kelly and Secretary Mattis had conversations about if Trump lunged for the nuclear football, what would they do? "Would they tackle him? I mean literally, physically restrain him from putting the country at sort of a perilous risk, and that’s the kind of situation we’re in."

 

[roydo]

Technically no but that "attack on US" can be interpreted very broadly and there is already suggestions that Trump has already violated the act itself. "On April 6, 2017, the United States launched 59 BGM-109 Tomahawk missiles at Shayrat airbase in Syria in response to Syria's alleged use of chemical weapons. Constitutional scholar and law professor Stephen Vladeck has noted that the strike potentially violates the War Powers Resolution.

You will not be reassured to know there are reports that your other question has also been raised by Republicans themselves.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...e-secretary-james-mattis-tackle-a7993961.html
Republican officials reportedly imagine Donald Trump's chief of staff and defence secretary have had conversations about "physically [restraining]" him if he "lunged for the nuclear football."
Gabriel Sherman, a contributing editor at New York Magazine, told MSNBC's All In with Chris Hayes a senior republican had told him they imagined conversations between General John Kellyand James Mattis about what to do if Mr Trump attempted to launch a nuclear strike.

Mr Sherman said: “I just want to put into context a conversation that I had with a very prominent Republican today, who literally was saying that they imagine General Kelly and Secretary Mattis had conversations about if Trump lunged for the nuclear football, what would they do? "Would they tackle him? I mean literally, physically restrain him from putting the country at sort of a perilous risk, and that’s the kind of situation we’re in."

Whilst a bit reassuring, only a bit mind, there isnt actually a button is there. There is a whole range of protocol to go through before a nuke is launched. A few tomahawks lobbed at an airport aint quite the same level.

I hope.

 

[roydo]

but he's then meant to seek Congressional approval afterwards, within a certain window of time.

lollol

Really??

Wowzers.

Thats the ultimate "go to your room and think about what you have done!"

 

[abelard]

Whilst a bit reassuring, only a bit mind, there isnt actually a button is there. There is a whole ranghttps://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/donald-trump-potus.92716/page-772e of protocol to go through before a nuke is launched. A few tomahawks lobbed at an airport aint quite the same level.

I hope.

There's less oversight than you might think. The President is meant to meet with his defence staff first, but nobody has the authority to countermand his direct order to launch a nuke. These meetings need only last a few seconds. Keep in mind, all this was designed with the presumption that a Soviet nuke was already incoming.

I came across this, which might be helpful:
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-nuclear-weapon-launch/

We have had a lot of close calls already. Eisenhower seriously considered using nuclear weapons to support France in Vietnam, in 1954. Nixon, then his VP, was the most enthusiastic proponent. We were extremely lucky to avoid incident during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Castro had requested a Soviet strike, and at one point a Soviet submarine fleet commander rejected a nuclear submarine captain's order to launch a nuclear attack on the American fleet. You can also listen to Nixon drunkenly contemplating a nuclear strike against Hanoi in 1972. Then, the accidents - Able Archer in 1983, when the Soviets thought NATO war games were an actual imminent attack; the 1979 NORAD episode, when a computer-simulated Soviet attack for war gaming was accidentally activated, and Carter was woken and informed that he had ten minutes to respond; or the 1995 Norwegian weather balloon episode, which Yeltsin feared was a NATO attack... these are just the famous ones.

Nuclear weapons are like the proverbial guns on the wall in a Chekov play. It is only a matter of time.

 

[peteblue]

lollol

Really??

Wowzers.

Thats the ultimate "go to your room and think about what you have done!"

Yep, “but you just nuked North Korea”....”they deserved it”...........”but then you nuked France”........”I never liked them anyway”.......

 

[LinekersLegs]

"Freedom of the press" appears an alien concept to Trump and something he clearly does not feel it is his duty to uphold, he suggested revoking licences earlier in the day.


His nose has got bent out of shape by this report


Trump tweet on 12/26/16: “The United States must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability...”

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

There will be a coup d'etat before nukes are used.

Even our most hawkish, crazy generals wouldn't want to go there.

When it gets to that point, it'll become known that Tony Sporano is running things [anyone but this crazy loon], and letting Junior [Trump] think he was in control for a while will finally come to an end.

At least I can dream.

 

[BlueTX]

"Freedom of the press" appears an alien concept to Trump and something he clearly does not feel it is his duty to uphold, he suggested revoking licences earlier in the day.


His nose has got bent out of shape by this report


Trump tweet on 12/26/16: “The United States must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability...”

And now he's denying this NBC reporting as well. Sources confirm. His own damned Tweets confirm. He puts his fingers in his ears and cries, "nyah, nyah, nyah!!!"

The man has no shame.

 

[peteblue]

There will be a coup d'etat before nukes are used.

Even our most hawkish, crazy generals wouldn't want to go there.

When it gets to that point, it'll become known that Tony Sporano is running things [anyone but this crazy loon], and letting Junior [Trump] think he was in control for a while will finally come to an end.

At least I can dream.

This is a big moment in history for the USA. If North Korea is seen to ‘get away’ with standing up to the USA then more and more will attempt it, it’s how empires fall.......

 

[LinekersLegs]