Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

[abelard]

Not really, I didn't vote for him. I think he's an idiot. When did Christopher Columbus become insensitive, before or since Trump ?.......

Columbus was always on the insensitive side:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/11/24/indians-slaves-and-mass-murder-the-hidden-history/
"Taínos who resisted the Spanish were set upon by dogs, disemboweled by swords, burned at stakes, trampled by horses—atrocities “to which no chronicle could ever do justice,” wrote Friar Bartolomé de las Casas, a crusader for Indian rights, in 1542. Against the Caribs the Spaniards had a tougher time, fighting pitched battles but capturing hundreds of slaves as well. Columbus sailed home from his second voyage with over a thousand captives bound for slave auctions in Cádiz (many died en route, their bodies tossed overboard). He envisioned a future market for New World gold, spices, cotton, and “as many slaves as Their Majesties order to make, from among those who are idolators,” whose sales might underwrite subsequent expeditions.

Indians suffered from overwork in the gold beds, as well as foreign pathogens against which they had no antibodies, and from famine as a result of overhunting and underfarming. Within two generations the native Caribbean population faced a “cataclysmic decline.” On the island of Hispaniola alone, of its estimated 300,000 indigenous population, only 11,000 Taínos remained alive by 1517. Within ten more years, six hundred or so villages were empty."

But posturing to get rid of his statute is pushing things too far. Not a wise move politically, just now.

 

[verreauxi]

Yes, long before Trump as Abelard says. There have been protests at least since the mid-80s, particularly at my undergraduate institution (University of Illinois), as students were protesting the fact that a frat boy, during football halftime shows, would dress up as a native American "Chief Illiniwek" and dance around. This led to many more yearly protests against Christopher Colombus and Colombus day itself.

 

[peteblue]

Columbus was always on the insensitive side:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/11/24/indians-slaves-and-mass-murder-the-hidden-history/
"Taínos who resisted the Spanish were set upon by dogs, disemboweled by swords, burned at stakes, trampled by horses—atrocities “to which no chronicle could ever do justice,” wrote Friar Bartolomé de las Casas, a crusader for Indian rights, in 1542. Against the Caribs the Spaniards had a tougher time, fighting pitched battles but capturing hundreds of slaves as well. Columbus sailed home from his second voyage with over a thousand captives bound for slave auctions in Cádiz (many died en route, their bodies tossed overboard). He envisioned a future market for New World gold, spices, cotton, and “as many slaves as Their Majesties order to make, from among those who are idolators,” whose sales might underwrite subsequent expeditions.

Indians suffered from overwork in the gold beds, as well as foreign pathogens against which they had no antibodies, and from famine as a result of overhunting and underfarming. Within two generations the native Caribbean population faced a “cataclysmic decline.” On the island of Hispaniola alone, of its estimated 300,000 indigenous population, only 11,000 Taínos remained alive by 1517. Within ten more years, six hundred or so villages were empty."

But posturing to get rid of his statute is pushing things too far. Not a wise move politically, just now.

Indeed, it smacks of pc posturing.....

 

[abelard]

Indeed, it smacks of pc posturing.....

Keep the statue then, but only on condition that everybody has to learn about what I just posted. Add it to the plaque, too.

 

[Raindog]

Indeed, it smacks of pc posturing.....

You're probably not wrong there, but as everyone in a civilised democracy has a right to air their views, they get heard, and then deat with accordingly. Columbus will not come down. It's worthwhile remembering how the media works. Hot topic at the moment = statue, therefore more statue related stories in the news.

What is more concerning is that you have more of an opinion on a vocal minority protesting a statue than you do with the very, even consciously, un-pc posturing regarding:

- Pardoning a convicted criminal, breaching the laws of the land.
- Failing to condemn nazis on American soil.
- Contravening discrimination laws in banning a minorty group from the labour market.
- Threatening to shut down government to build a wall along the entire southern border of the USA.

from arguably the most powerful man in the world.

I apologise, I have taken the bait and have contributed to the partial derailment of the thread. Last words on statues from me in this thread.

I would be interested to hear what you think about the above points though, PeteBlue, even though you didn't vote for him.

I'll also forget about the myriad questions I've asked you previously which you have conveniently ignored.

 

[jal123]

You're probably not wrong there, but as everyone in a civilised democracy has a right to air their views, they get heard, and then deat with accordingly. Columbus will not come down. It's worthwhile remembering how the media works. Hot topic at the moment = statue, therefore more statue related stories in the news.

What is more concerning is that you have more of an opinion on a vocal minority protesting a statue than you do with the very, even consciously, un-pc posturing regarding:

- Pardoning a convicted criminal, breaching the laws of the land.
- Failing to condemn nazis on American soil.
- Contravening discrimination laws in banning a minorty group from the labour market.
- Threatening to shut down government to build a wall along the entire southern border of the USA.

from arguably the most powerful man in the world.

I apologise, I have taken the bait and have contributed to the partial derailment of the thread. Last words on statues from me in this thread.

I would be interested to hear what you think about the above points though, PeteBlue, even though you didn't vote for him.

I'll also forget about the myriad questions I've asked you previously which you have conveniently ignored.

Wowzer


If @peteblue doesn't respond to this then the shreds of credibility he still had on here (mainly down to the fact I still think he's genuinely a nice fella but massively misguided) are gone, he is not to be listened to or responded to any more.

Down to you Pedro............

 

[peteblue]

Yes, long before Trump as Abelard says. There have been protests at least since the mid-80s, particularly at my undergraduate institution (University of Illinois), as students were protesting the fact that a frat boy, during football halftime shows, would dress up as a native American "Chief Illiniwek" and dance around. This led to many more yearly protests against Christopher Colombus and Colombus day itself.

So a pillock dresses as a Native American at a football match and therefore Columbus gets the stick......so when are two of the heads at Mt Rushmore getting blown up, I mean one used to own slaves and another oversaw resettlement of Native Americans I believe......Mao's cultural revolution has nothing on this........sorry I am actually watching Trolls with my granddaughter as I type this........

 

[jal123]

So a pillock dresses as a Native American at a football match and therefore Columbus gets the stick......so when are two of the heads at Mt Rushmore getting blown up, I mean one used to own slaves and another oversaw resettlement of Native Americans I believe......Mao's cultural revolution has nothing on this........sorry I am actually watching Trolls with my granddaughter as I type this........

Ironic, picking up any tips?

The statues aren't the point, Pedro, but then I suspect you know that.

 

[peteblue]

You're probably not wrong there, but as everyone in a civilised democracy has a right to air their views, they get heard, and then deat with accordingly. Columbus will not come down. It's worthwhile remembering how the media works. Hot topic at the moment = statue, therefore more statue related stories in the news.

What is more concerning is that you have more of an opinion on a vocal minority protesting a statue than you do with the very, even consciously, un-pc posturing regarding:

- Pardoning a convicted criminal, breaching the laws of the land.
- Failing to condemn nazis on American soil.
- Contravening discrimination laws in banning a minorty group from the labour market.
- Threatening to shut down government to build a wall along the entire southern border of the USA.

from arguably the most powerful man in the world.

I apologise, I have taken the bait and have contributed to the partial derailment of the thread. Last words on statues from me in this thread.

I would be interested to hear what you think about the above points though, PeteBlue, even though you didn't vote for him.

I'll also forget about the myriad questions I've asked you previously which you have conveniently ignored.

Well the four points you raise...

All presidents have pardoned convicted criminals. I have said before that I believe allowing a President to pardon anyone is absurd.

Failing to condemn Nazis. Didn't Obama find it impossible to say 'Radical Islam'. I dare say that Trump was neither the first nor last President to fail to condemn.

Contravening discrimination laws. On the face of it disgraceful and I cannot for the life of me understand who or what the driving force for this is. Did he really just want to pick a fight with his military or did they have any input, no idea myself.

Threatening to shut down government in order to build a wall. Well he was fairly open about building a wall, and a great many people voted for him to do so, so his threat is merely a way of achieving his election promise...

 

[peteblue]

Ironic, picking up any tips?

The statues aren't the point, Pedro, but then I suspect you know that.

Correct on both parts, my point all along has been about rising intolerance in whatever form it takes, the statues and the newly created reasons for their destruction are merely one absurd example......

 

[peteblue]

Wowzer


If @peteblue doesn't respond to this then the shreds of credibility he still had on here (mainly down to the fact I still think he's genuinely a nice fella but massively misguided) are gone, he is not to be listened to or responded to any more.

Down to you Pedro............

Is this the equivalent of torches and pitchforks.......

 

[jal123]

Is this the equivalent of torches and pitchforks.......

Answer properly Peter, please?

 

[Ruairi77]

Correct on both parts, my point all along has been about rising intolerance in whatever form it takes, the statues and the newly created reasons for their destruction are merely one absurd example......

We're talking about onfederate statues here right?

 

[Professor Toffee]

You're probably not wrong there, but as everyone in a civilised democracy has a right to air their views, they get heard, and then deat with accordingly. Columbus will not come down. It's worthwhile remembering how the media works. Hot topic at the moment = statue, therefore more statue related stories in the news.

What is more concerning is that you have more of an opinion on a vocal minority protesting a statue than you do with the very, even consciously, un-pc posturing regarding:

- Pardoning a convicted criminal, breaching the laws of the land.
- Failing to condemn nazis on American soil.
- Contravening discrimination laws in banning a minorty group from the labour market.
- Threatening to shut down government to build a wall along the entire southern border of the USA.

from arguably the most powerful man in the world.

I apologise, I have taken the bait and have contributed to the partial derailment of the thread. Last words on statues from me in this thread.

I would be interested to hear what you think about the above points though, PeteBlue, even though you didn't vote for him.

I'll also forget about the myriad questions I've asked you previously which you have conveniently ignored.

You are an honourable and intelligent thinker. Thank you

 

[Raindog]

Well the four points you raise...

All presidents have pardoned convicted criminals. I have said before that I believe allowing a President to pardon anyone is absurd.

Failing to condemn Nazis. Didn't Obama find it impossible to say 'Radical Islam'. I dare say that Trump was neither the first nor last President to fail to condemn.

Contravening discrimination laws. On the face of it disgraceful and I cannot for the life of me understand who or what the driving force for this is. Did he really just want to pick a fight with his military or did they have any input, no idea myself.

Threatening to shut down government in order to build a wall. Well he was fairly open about building a wall, and a great many people voted for him to do so, so his threat is merely a way of achieving his election promise...

Thanks for the answer, I was just curious to see why you'd see Trump as an idiot if you had no truck with his administration.

True on the pardon part, no conviction, no pardon. However, the choice and timing of Donnie's first could be seen as inflamatory by some.

Obama maybe didn't say 'Radical Islam' because, I assume, he didn't want to alienate, or more cynically maybe, upset the Muslim community by creting a link in the public consciousness between Islam and Terror. As a President I imagine he relises the need to choose his words carefully to protect all those under his mandate. Why, then, would Trump be afraid of linking Nazis with White Supremacists? So as not to alienate, or more cynically maybe, upset the White Supremacists? To not create a link in the public consciousness.

I even see your point regarding Preidents failing to condemn. But look at what they're failing to condemn. Armed Nazis in an urban American setting.

Lastly, ok, he's serious about that wall. So serious that he thinks shutting down government at a time when nuclear confrontation (I won't say war, I know how you feel about that) is on the cards, a storm is battering Texas, and there is open conflct and death on the streets is a good idea. Shouldn't the President of a country not be looking to steady the shipp and inspire confidence?

As always, just my opinion, and meant in the spirit of open debate, Don't take it as pitch-forks and torches as that's not the intention.