Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

[LinekersLegs]

this is why foreign ministers are starting to insist on meeting him in person - they can manipulate him into disclosing or conceding virtually anything, without even really trying. the trade deal with China, for instance:

Critics pan Trump’s ‘early harvest’ trade deal with China
President accused of being outplayed by Beijing as ‘gigantic’ agreement draws derision

https://www.ft.com/content/16a9b978-3766-11e7-bce4-9023f8c0fd2e

“This is disappointing on many levels,” says Dan DiMicco, former chief executive of US steelmaker Nucor and a campaign adviser to Mr Trump who has long advocated a tough approach on Beijing. “We are rewarding China before stopping their massive trade cheating.”

“They got played,” was the blunter assessment of one former US official.

The “early harvest” deal rolled out on Friday saw China agree to resume imports of US beef that were suspended in 2003, in a move that US cattle ranchers hailed as “historic” but which Chinese leaders had already agreed to last September.

I still find it bizarre that he met with the Russians in the Oval office in the first place! Not only given the optics the day after after firing Comey for continuing the Russian investigation but the Russians were likely involved in meddling in the French election only a few days previously!

Let alone his state department saying as recently as last month that Russia knew ahead of time about the Syrians using chemical weapons on their own kids.

 

[tsubaki]

I still find it bizarre that he met with the Russians in the Oval office in the first place! Not only given the optics the day after after firing Comey for continuing the Russian investigation but the Russians were likely involved in meddling in the French election only a few days previously!

Let alone his state department saying as recently as last month that Russia knew ahead of time about the Syrians using chemical weapons on their own kids.

I don't think its unusual - he wants a rapprochement with them, and for all the talk about what they have on him, his lot's business links and whatnot there is considerable sense in calming that relationship down with the Russians at least when it comes to Syria. It is in no-ones interest if we get into a shooting war with them over al-Qaeda.

 

[RAFUH]

Pretty much this.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/opinion/trump-classified-data.html?smid=fb-share

He (Trump) is thus the all-time record-holder of the Dunning-Kruger effect, the phenomenon in which the incompetent person is too incompetent to understand his own incompetence.


From all we know so far, Trump didn’t do it because he is a Russian agent, or for any malevolent intent. He did it because he is sloppy, because he lacks all impulse control, and above all because he is a 7-year-old boy desperate for the approval of those he admires.

We’ve got this perverse situation in which the vast analytic powers of the entire world are being spent trying to understand a guy whose thoughts are often just six fireflies beeping randomly in a jar.

“We badly want to understand Trump, to grasp him,” David Roberts writes in Vox. “It might give us some sense of control, or at least an ability to predict what he will do next. But what if there’s nothing to understand? What if there is no there there?”

And out of that void comes a carelessness that quite possibly betrayed an intelligence source, and endangered a country.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Pretty much this.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/opinion/trump-classified-data.html?smid=fb-share

He (Trump) is thus the all-time record-holder of the Dunning-Kruger effect, the phenomenon in which the incompetent person is too incompetent to understand his own incompetence.


From all we know so far, Trump didn’t do it because he is a Russian agent, or for any malevolent intent. He did it because he is sloppy, because he lacks all impulse control, and above all because he is a 7-year-old boy desperate for the approval of those he admires.

We’ve got this perverse situation in which the vast analytic powers of the entire world are being spent trying to understand a guy whose thoughts are often just six fireflies beeping randomly in a jar.

“We badly want to understand Trump, to grasp him,” David Roberts writes in Vox. “It might give us some sense of control, or at least an ability to predict what he will do next. But what if there’s nothing to understand? What if there is no there there?”

And out of that void comes a carelessness that quite possibly betrayed an intelligence source, and endangered a country.

Just saw that as well, seems too fitting

 

[LinekersLegs]

I don't think its unusual - he wants a rapprochement with them, and for all the talk about what they have on him, his lot's business links and whatnot there is considerable sense in calming that relationship down with the Russians at least when it comes to Syria. It is in no-ones interest if we get into a shooting war with them over al-Qaeda.

So we should just ignore everything that Russia has done just in the hope it reduces the tensions a bit? Sorry, that sounds more like appeasement than negotiation. I agree that it isn't to anyones benefit that there is a shooting war but it seems like Trump is making all the concessions to date.

 

[tsubaki]

Sorry, not sure I understand your meaning with the JFK reference - those disclosures were to resolve a crisis, if the WaPo report is true Trump was just boasting what good intel he got and gave the information up to no purpose?

As to the seriousness of the information leaked, if the Senate intel committee really have been briefed it will be interesting to see their reaction, they tend to be one of the less political groups.

The key bit being "if the WaPo report is true". After all, it does sort of pass over without comment the revelation that one of the US's allies has a source, presumably a very highly placed source, inside Islamic State. Given that it was the Post that revealed this to the world, and as part of an attack on Trump (rather than questioning what that source knew about IS's intentions / attacks), it should be treated with some caution.

 

[SerenityNigh]

This from a conservative source:
http://theresurgent.com/i-know-one-of-the-sources/

I tend to take these stories about the President with a grain of salt. We have seen key details of a number of salacious stories retracted within 48 hours. The media hates the President so much that they’ll run a negative story about him without very much provocation. Anti-Trump sources embedded within the administration in the career civil service, etc. will leak to the press and confirmation bias sets in.

What sets this story apart for me, at least, is that I know one of the sources. And the source is solidly supportive of President Trump, or at least has been and was during Campaign 2016. But the President will not take any internal criticism, no matter how politely it is given. He does not want advice, cannot be corrected, and is too insecure to see any constructive feedback as anything other than an attack.

So some of the sources are left with no other option but to go to the media, leak the story, and hope that the intense blowback gives the President a swift kick in the butt. Perhaps then he will recognize he screwed up. The President cares vastly more about what the press says than what his advisers say. That is a real problem and one his advisers are having to recognize and use, even if it causes messy stories to get outside the White House perimeter.

I am told that what the President did is actually far worse than what is being reported. The President does not seem to realize or appreciate that his bragging can undermine relationships with our allies and with human intelligence sources. He also does not seem to appreciate that his loose lips can get valuable assets in the field killed.

You can call these sources disloyal, traitors, or whatever you want. But please ask yourself a question — if the President, through inexperience and ignorance, is jeopardizing our national security and will not take advice or corrective action, what other means are available to get the President to listen and recognize the error of his ways?

This is a real problem and I treat this story very seriously because I know just how credible, competent, and serious — as well as seriously pro-Trump, at least one of the sources is.

 

[Harryflashman]

Fox lead story is now the leak , actually unbelievable, I use that word in its true meaning . Unbelievable.

 

[Number_25]

Surely he has to go soon?

 

[tsubaki]

So we should just ignore everything that Russia has done just in the hope it reduces the tensions a bit? Sorry, that sounds more like appeasement than negotiation. I agree that it isn't to anyones benefit that there is a shooting war but it seems like Trump is making all the concessions to date.

What has Russia done, though? They have backed their ally Assad in his murderous campaign against various rebel groups, some of whom are our open enemies and have carried out attacks in our countries.

It is barbaric, but I really don't see that much of a difference between that and (for example) the West backing the Saudis in their murderous campaign in Yemen.

Putin is horrible mind - but its just bizarre to me that we are kicking off over this, rather than over what he did to Litvinenko, to the internal Russian opposition, to Anna Politkovskaya etc. Even his antics in Ukraine have resulted in considerably less threats of Western intervention than the Syrian stuff has.

 

[LinekersLegs]

The key bit being "if the WaPo report is true". After all, it does sort of pass over without comment the revelation that one of the US's allies has a source, presumably a very highly placed source, inside Islamic State. Given that it was the Post that revealed this to the world, and as part of an attack on Trump (rather than questioning what that source knew about IS's intentions / attacks), it should be treated with some caution.

Tbh any news in this environment should be treated with caution as we're likely to get more leaks/tweets/clarifications that make any initial assessments out of date within a day!

 

[SerenityNigh]

Surely he has to go soon?

Maybe not until/after midterms...



Although the GOP is filled with so many rent-seekers, they'll crumble if public opinion moves too far away from Trump

 

[Harryflashman]

What has Russia done, though? They have backed their ally Assad in his murderous campaign against various rebel groups, some of whom are our open enemies and have carried out attacks in our countries.

It is barbaric, but I really don't see that much of a difference between that and (for example) the West backing the Saudis in their murderous campaign in Yemen.

Putin is horrible mind - but its just bizarre to me that we are kicking off over this, rather than over what he did to Litvinenko, to the internal Russian opposition, to Anna Politkovskaya etc. Even his antics in Ukraine have resulted in considerably less threats of Western intervention than the Syrian stuff has.

If a foreign power supplies classified information to the US intelligence devices , apparently highly sensitive and secretive information it has a right for the integrity of that intelligence to be respected .

If for example it's five eyes intell only , it's intelligence we share only with the US, Canada , Australia and NZ . Potentially this could be intelligence we don't pass on in all it's detail to France and Germany but Trump gives it Russia and that would be ok ?

The key here isn't the intelligence that was disclosed its that it was disclosed , imagine an individual here who was covered by the official secrets act disclosing any information of a classified nature without authority to the Russians ? Now imagine that was intelligence supplied by the US , this is insane .

The credibility issue here is huge , how can allies share sensitive information with the US now ? I'm serious , this braggart could literally say anything at any moment to anybody .

Maybe not until/after midterms...



Although the GOP is filled with so many rent-seekers, they'll crumble if public opinion moves too far away from Trump

Not a surprise but shame on them

 

[tsubaki]

If a foreign power supplies classified information to the US intelligence devices , apparently highly sensitive and secretive information it has a right for the integrity of that intelligence to be respected .

If for example it's five eyes intell only , it's intelligence we share only with the US, Canada , Australia and NZ . Potentially this could be intelligence we don't pass on in all it's detail to France and Germany but Trump gives it Russia and that would be ok ?

The key here isn't the intelligence that was disclosed its that it was disclosed , imagine an individual here who was covered by the official secrets act disclosing any information of a classified nature without authority to the Russians ? Now imagine that was intelligence supplied by the US , this is insane .

The credibility issue here is huge , how can allies share sensitive information with the US now ? I'm serious , this braggart could literally say anything at any moment to anybody .

That is an argument that is being made, but it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. If a foreign country has had its intel leaked, do you think they are more upset that Trump told Russia or that the Post told the world?

 

[LinekersLegs]

What has Russia done, though? They have backed their ally Assad in his murderous campaign against various rebel groups, some of whom are our open enemies and have carried out attacks in our countries.

It is barbaric, but I really don't see that much of a difference between that and (for example) the West backing the Saudis in their murderous campaign in Yemen.

Putin is horrible mind - but its just bizarre to me that we are kicking off over this, rather than over what he did to Litvinenko, to the internal Russian opposition, to Anna Politkovskaya etc. Even his antics in Ukraine have resulted in considerably less threats of Western intervention than the Syrian stuff has.

Trump himself seemed to draw a line between the use of chemical weapons and conventional weapons, that was his whole rationale for bombing a Syrian airfield...an airfield shared with the Russians. Regardless of your own view of whether the actions were barbaric enough to provoke the retaliatory action, Trump and his admin clearly did, so to say "lets forget it and be friends again" less than a month later seems to be odd doesn't it?

Even putting aside the Syria actions Trump's own advisors say there is considerable evidence that they meddled in the elections of several countries, not least the US one. Surely that is a serious issue, especially for an elected leader? Heck, the Russians even played Trump at the meeting itself, saying their photographer was a private state one yet releasing the photos online through TASS almost immediately.