Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

[Harryflashman]

That is an argument that is being made, but it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. If a foreign country has had its intel leaked, do you think they are more upset that Trump told Russia or that the Post told the world?

Ah ok So your saying that two wrongs make a right ?

In all seriousness though I've no idea who is saying what to who , 8 hours ago I was told he hadn't told them anything then he tweets he had . lets be honest we have no idea who is up to what in that region , we don't know what the source was , where it was , whether it was Daesh based, other rebel groups or whether it had come from a source within the Syrian government . We clearly know the overt Russian position but in the intelligence world everybody is constantly making and breaking alliances especially within that reason. It's all massive speculation , what we do seem to know is that Trump has disclosed confidential intelligence to a hostile power that had tried to influence elections in The US and France . What else has he said , what will he say next time ? It's not the job of the media to protect the president it is the job of the president not to compromise the security of his nation or other friendly powers.

 

[tsubaki]

Trump himself seemed to draw a line between the use of chemical weapons and conventional weapons, that was his whole rationale for bombing a Syrian airfield...an airfield shared with the Russians. Regardless of your own view of whether the actions were barbaric enough to provoke the retaliatory action, Trump and his admin clearly did, so to say "lets forget it and be friends again" less than a month later seems to be odd doesn't it?

Not really, the attack was minimal in scope and was announced in advance. It can only really be understood as marking a line beyond which the Syrians should not cross, and doesn't (didn't) rule out talks with the Russians further down the line.

Even putting aside the Syria actions Trump's own advisors say there is considerable evidence that they meddled in the elections of several countries, not least the US one. Surely that is a serious issue, especially for an elected leader? Heck, the Russians even played Trump at the meeting itself, saying their photographer was a private state one yet releasing the photos online through TASS almost immediately.

It is daft to suggest that such antics (interfering in other countries elections) doesn't go on though, and indeed the US has form for doing it repeatedly and across much of the world. As for the TASS photographer, I'd be amazed if Trump didn't know and approve of the release of those photos by them, given that it would only ever be seen as an insult to the US press (who were not invited at all).

 

[tsubaki]

Ah ok So your saying that two wrongs make a right ?

In all seriousness though I've no idea who is saying what to who , 8 hours ago I was told he hadn't told them anything then he tweets he had . lets be honest we have no idea who is up to what in that region , we don't know what the source was , where it was , whether it was Daesh based, other rebel groups or whether it had come from a source within the Syrian government . We clearly know the overt Russian position but in the intelligence world everybody is constantly making and breaking alliances especially within that reason. It's all massive speculation , what we do seem to know is that Trump has disclosed confidential intelligence to a hostile power that had tried to influence elections in The US and France . What else has he said , what will he say next time ? It's not the job of the media to protect the president it is the job of the president not to compromise the security of his nation or other friendly powers.

No, I'm saying that I have a hard time believing anyone over Syria anyway - and certainly when they use something like what is alleged to have happened as a stick to beat Trump with, and reveal a considerable amount of information about the source whilst they are doing so.

 

[Ruairi77]

That is an argument that is being made, but it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. If a foreign country has had its intel leaked, do you think they are more upset that Trump told Russia or that the Post told the world?

Trump told Russia

 

[SerenityNigh]

Fox lead story is now the leak , actually unbelievable, I use that word in its true meaning . Unbelievable.

Missed this earlier; if Fox turns on him that could be trouble, since his supporters frequently get their news only from one source and might otherwise not know about the problems in his administration.

 

[Harryflashman]

Missed this earlier; if Fox turns on him that could be trouble, since his supporters frequently get their news only from one source and might otherwise not know about the problems in his administration.

No sorry to clarify the fox story is the leak not trump but the leak of trumps disclosure.

 

[SerenityNigh]

That is an argument that is being made, but it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. If a foreign country has had its intel leaked, do you think they are more upset that Trump told Russia or that the Post told the world?

If your wife was cheating on you would you be more upset if (a) someone randomly, accidentally, and anonymously announced this on social media, posting a picture of her with her fling at dinner or (b) your best mate knew but didn't tell you, just other people you know

 

[SerenityNigh]

No sorry to clarify the fox story is the leak not trump but the leak of trumps disclosure.

Oh, that makes me want to die a little then

 

[LinekersLegs]

Not really, the attack was minimal in scope and was announced in advance. It can only really be understood as marking a line beyond which the Syrians should not cross, and doesn't (didn't) rule out talks with the Russians further down the line.
.

Of course it doesn't but see little reason to make those talks so friendly as to involve an Oval Office visit so quickly without some clear progress on deescalating the overall Syria situation which doesn't appear to be the case.

It is daft to suggest that such antics (interfering in other countries elections) doesn't go on though, and indeed the US has form for doing it repeatedly and across much of the world. As for the TASS photographer, I'd be amazed if Trump didn't know and approve of the release of those photos by them, given that it would only ever be seen as an insult to the US press (who were not invited at all).

I don't think I ever denied that those antics happened before worldwide, just that recently they were particularly extensive and influential. But I don't recall a suggestion of them happening in the US before other than shadowy claims of various campaigns getting money. To not extract some cost to the Russians for their use will at best make it likely they will do the same in the next elections, at worst increase it.

And the history of the US is that the US doesn't accept other countries doing to it what the US feels free to do to other countries, you may not agree with it but seems odd for an avowed "America First" president to chart a different course.

 

[tsubaki]

If your wife was cheating on you would you be more upset if (a) someone randomly, accidentally, and anonymously announced this on social media, posting a picture of her with her fling at dinner or (b) your best mate knew but didn't tell you, just other people you know

That isn't a parallel to this, though. Everyone knew he had a meeting with Lavrov and their ambassador, all that has happened now is that it is being alleged he said things that were secret.

So if you want to use your analogy in this instance, it would be like ones' boss telling his golf chum about what happened, compared to a bloke in the pub telling everyone in there about when, where, how often, who was involved via the PA system and doing so because he has a longstanding grudge against the boss.

 

[tsubaki]

Of course it doesn't but see little reason to make those talks so friendly as to involve an Oval Office visit so quickly without some clear progress on deescalating the overall Syria situation which doesn't appear to be the case.

True, though that assumes that the State Department and the Trump administration have the same agenda here - that they would negotiate with the Russians and then present the Presidential "talks" to the world only after everything has been agreed. That is how things used to work, but I am not sure that is how things work now - and I am not that convinced that Trump is necessarily in the wrong over his stance with regards to the Russians over this issue.

I don't think I ever denied that those antics happened before worldwide, just that recently they were particularly extensive and influential. But I don't recall a suggestion of them happening in the US before other than shadowy claims of various campaigns getting money. To not extract some cost to the Russians for their use will at best make it likely they will do the same in the next elections, at worst increase it.

And the history of the US is that the US doesn't accept other countries doing to it what the US feels free to do to other countries, you may not agree with it but seems odd for an avowed "America First" president to chart a different course.

Indeed, but all I'd point out is that the only allegation of Russian interference to really stick with regards to the US election is the email hacks on the DNC and the Clinton Campaign, and the subsequent publication of what they were actually saying and doing. If a news agency had done that, with the effect that it had, they would probably have won awards.

 

[DanEFC92]

 

[Harryflashman]

I doubt it will come to it but if your the country responsible for the intelligence you'd seriously have to consider that response . Say the source provides intell on daesh but also Russian military movements then potentially their security could be compromised , what if a source says you can't tell the US and what if you have future intelligence on Russia from that or other sources ? It's certainly not a great situation to be .

Edit - trump meets Turkish president today , the Turks who are opposed to Kurdish military action against Assad . What if he lets intelligence on the Kurds slip today ? Again safety security is compromised , it seems ridiculous that this is even a conversation about a sitting president .

 

[DanEFC92]

I doubt it will come to it but if your the country responsible for the intelligence you'd seriously have to consider that response . Say the source provides intell on daesh but also Russian military movements then potentially their security could be compromised , what if a source says you can't tell the US and what if you have future intelligence on Russia from that or other sources ? It's certainly not a great situation to be .

Edit - trump meets Turkish president today , the Turks who are opposed to Kurdish military action against Assad . What if he lets intelligence on the Kurds slip today ? Again safety security is compromised , it seems ridiculous that this is even a conversation about a sitting president .

It's almost as if his experience as a reality tv star doesn't equip you with the right skillset to handle sensitive intel/lead the free world, etc.

 

[Harryflashman]

It's almost as if his experience as a reality tv star doesn't equip you with the right skillset to handle sensitive intel/lead the free world, etc.

Who'd have thunk it