Snopes has already debunked it but I feel it was a missed opportunity to label it “pants on fire”
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-wear-pants-backwards/ lol
Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon
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https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-wear-pants-backwards/ lol
dholliday
deconstructed rep
i'll match your one random biased post from Twitter, and raise you with two biased posts of my own. Mine have more likes. Checkmate.
It wasn’t just a random post, the article is from the website 538 whose whole focus is voting predictions and analysis.
And, comparing the articles linked (rather than just the two tweets and their likes) I find their reasoning more persuasive. I don’t for instance think it is “gold standard” to only have one set of observers watching over any political procedure. Trump himself complained vociferously (and incorrectly) that when many state recounts were done that his campaigns credentialed observers could not get access yet this Arizona audit clearly is being run by a partisan group with little experience or accreditation and doesn’t even seem to conform to state laws.
“State laws stipulate that vote audits must be transparent and include more than one political party. They must also be conducted under the supervision of election officials, and the results must be made public. Forensic audits — where the systems and machines used for recording and tabulating votes are checked to make sure they’re operating properly — include even more guardrails. A handful of U.S. firms are certified by the independent, bipartisan Election Assistance Commission to do these kinds of checks, a process that requires the firms themselves to be audited every two years by the EAC,”
dholliday
deconstructed rep
what kind of accreditation is available for election-auditors? is there such a thing? The EAC isn't it. They certify equipment, maintain mail-voting processes etc. They are not accreditators for election-auditors. Anyone that says they are sounds like they're pushing misinformation to seed doubt in the seriousness of the Maricopa-audit.
My two Twitter contributions also weren't random then: one was from the auditors themselves, and the other a report on a visit from a Senator.
Cannot claim to be an expert on the EAC but as I understood it their mandate was broader than that. However the Mariposa audit is looking at the voting equipment used so presumably their accreditation would appear to be at least useful. Perhaps it should be up to Cyber Ninjas to prove what accreditation or experience they do have as they don’t seem very forthcoming and Mariposa county don’t feel they have the required credentials
The Unfolding Disaster in Arizona
The question isn’t whether it can end well, but how exactly it will end badly.
From everything I have read there are valid doubts about the impartiality of this audit and how it has been conducted. I will however leave it there as we both have our minds made up.
dholliday
deconstructed rep
Cannot claim to be an expert on the EAC but as I understood it their mandate was broader than that. However the Mariposa audit is looking at the voting equipment used so presumably their accreditation would appear to be at least useful. Perhaps it should be up to Cyber Ninjas to prove what accreditation or experience they do have as they don’t seem very forthcoming and Mariposa county don’t feel they have the required credentials
“ Although the process has been called an “audit” or a “recount,” it doesn’t match the procedures laid out in state law for either of those. To conduct the audit, the state hired a Florida software-security firm called Cyber Ninjas. The company refused to tell me whether it has any experience with election audits, and its website, while featuring an impressive array of ninja stock photos, offers no indications that it is qualified to conduct election-security reviews. The only apparent reason for Cyber Ninjas’ selection is that the company’s founder, Doug Logan, was a noisy proponent of “Stop the Steal” theories of fraud in the election. (Logan has not responded to my requests for comment or an interview.) “The Unfolding Disaster in Arizona
The question isn’t whether it can end well, but how exactly it will end badly.www.theatlantic.com
From everything I have read there are valid doubts about the impartiality of this audit and how it has been conducted. I will however leave it there as we both have our minds made up.
Sure we can leave it, just a bit of background on the oft-quoted 'lack of accreditation' in case you're interested. This stemmed from Dominion's much-shared refusal to cooperate, claiming they only provide to EAC-'accredited' auditors. Two things about this:
1) EAC-accreditation isn't a requirement for auditors, nor is it a listed objective of the EAC to accredit auditors at all. They accredit firms to generally handle election equipment & processes, but not specifically to handle audits.
2) the two firms Dominion claimed were already accredited and they complied with, turned out weren't accredited after all. After journalists started to ask questions EAC swiftly put out a statement saying their accreditation was backlogged due to the pandemic and will follow in due course.
Distrust in both camps then. Cyber Ninjas sure picked a silly name too!
Logan was a little-known figure until Cyber Ninjas took charge of the Arizona recount. It then came to light that he’s had a history of authoring and amplifying debunked conspiracy theories about the 2020 election. Through his now-deleted Twitter account, Logan extensively retweeted and posted false allegations of widespread voter fraud. “The parallels between the statistical analysis of Venezuela and this year’s election are astonishing,” he tweeted in December. “I’m ashamed about how few republicans are talking about it.” Advocates of the “Stop the Steal” movement baselessly hold that voting systems used in the 2020 race were actually created years earlier in Venezuela to rig elections in favor of the now-deceased Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chávez. Logan also retweeted election misinformation from prominent figures in the QAnon movement like former 8chan administrator Ron Watkins and former national security adviser Michael Flynn. A tweet he shared from Watkins maintained that there were 200,000 pro-Trump votes from Maricopa that weren’t counted.
Dude's an ass clown and the whole thing is a joke. To think otherwise would have me worry about a person's intelligence. To pretend to think otherwise would be par for the course in this forum.
Dude's an ass clown and the whole thing is a joke. To think otherwise would have me worry about a person's intelligence. To pretend to think otherwise would be par for the course in this forum.
dholliday
deconstructed rep
That word "baseless" again. We see it in every single article dismissing fraud concerns. I wonder why we never saw that word used when Hillary lost? Baseless suggests there is zero reason why they would think potential fraud was committed. But the Democrats had their reasons and breathlessly stated so for 3 years (Russian collusion), eagerly supported by rabid anti-Trump media. Now Trump lost and everyone's acting like his camp doesn't have a right for similar concerns (the most valid appear to be the mail-in votes). This could've been put to bed in Nov/Dez had the Dems & media agreed to audits of key cities.
And then the classic: if you think otherwise, you're stupid. It's predictable stuff. I've seen no one from this side merely state it's a good idea to have a forensic audit to put to bed any concerns. It makes the other side think there is something shady going on.
So you've all made up your minds then: should the audit show Trump won Maricopa, it will not be taken seriously. At the very most it will get to court where it will be declared "moot". The 2022/24-campaigns will have fraud as the number one big issue. Not gonna be pleasant for a supposed world superpower.
As I said earlier, at this point the most peaceful option we can hope for is that the audit reveals nothing, only that the initial vote was accurate. Most Trump voters will accept this, from what I've seen.
Bishop Thumpety-Thump
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Looooooool at you once again
There were audits and checking of the votes in lots of place, for instance
There were also court cases in front of Trump appointed judges - none of them presented anything that indicated there was any fraud.
Trump, his attorneys, and his supporters falsely[11] asserted widespread election fraud in public statements, though few such assertions were made in court.[12]
Heck even Bill Bar didn’t think there was any fraud
Disputing Trump, Barr says no widespread election fraud
WASHINGTON (AP) — Disputing President Donald Trump’s persistent, baseless claims, Attorney General William Barr declared Tuesday the U.S.
apnews.com
Trump exhausted every standard route to challenge the election results in recounts/audits/court, as was his right. He lost.
dholliday
deconstructed rep
There were audits and checking of the votes in lots of place, for instance
none of them turned up a shred of evidence.
There were also court cases in front of Trump appointed judges - none of them presented anything that indicated there was any fraud.
Trump, his attorneys, and his supporters falsely[11] asserted widespread election fraud in public statements, though few such assertions were made in court.[12]
Heck even Bill Bar didn’t think there was any fraud
Disputing Trump, Barr says no widespread election fraud
WASHINGTON (AP) — Disputing President Donald Trump’s persistent, baseless claims, Attorney General William Barr declared Tuesday the U.S.
Trump exhausted every standard route to challenge the election results in recounts/audits/court, as was his right. He lost.
That Georgia audit you linked was a glorified recount. There hasn't been a forensic audit, which is what the Trump camp were calling for. Which we now have with Maricopa.
Hence, we await their results before coming to any more definitive conclusions.
Whatever you want to call it, it showed no sign of any fraud.
Trump can call for whatever he likes, doesn’t make it legal or something that should happen. A “forensic audit” has never been the standard of what any election needs to have before being accepted - where were the 2016 ones or 2012 ones?
And we most certainly do not have any such thing in Maricopa - it is a divisive farce as even some Republicans acknowledge.
A conservative talk radio host once backed the Arizona GOP election recount. Now he's warning Republicans against it
Mike Broomhead, a talk radio host in Phoenix, used to support a local audit of the 2020 election. Now he's urging fellow Republicans to reconsider.
www.latimes.com
An increasingly vocal share of Arizona Republicans see the recount as an act of self-sabotage, creating an albatross for statewide candidates in the run-up to a pivotal election year. Broomhead is in this camp, with another lingering concern. “No matter where you stand, the one thing we can all agree on is it has put a great big wedge in this community,” he told listeners earlier in the week. “That to me is the worst part of this. It’s one more reason for us to stand on opposite sides of the streets and complain about each other.”
…
Joe Biden won the state with a wafer-thin margin, a result immediately contested by Trump and his allies, although they never presented evidence of ineligible or altered votes. The Board of Supervisors in Maricopa County, comprising mostly Republicans, commissioned two independent audits to quell fears of fraud. Both reports said the vote count was accurate.
But Republicans in the state Senate demanded a broader recount and hired an obscure firm, Cyber Ninjas, which did not have experience with audits of this scale and whose leader had promoted baseless theories of rigged voting machines robbing Trump of votes. Since the recount began at Phoenix’s aging Veterans Memorial Coliseum, it has been beset with snafus, including ballot security lapses, opaque procedures and technical errors.
Then there are the conspiracy theories — the search for nonexistent watermarks or bamboo fibers in the ballots, sparked by unfounded rumors of ballots flown in from Asia. Organizers granted preferential media access to far-right network OAN, whose personalities are leading grass-roots fundraising drives for the recount that do not disclose donors.
The more the effort veered away from expert-sanctioned best practices and toward groundless speculation, the less Broomhead had faith in its integrity. He tried to imagine if the parties were reversed, if liberal Democrats were pushing an identical process. It’s only fair to admit, he said in an interview, that “Republicans would lose their minds.”
dholliday
deconstructed rep
The key difference between the 2020 elections and previous ones is the massive increase in mail-in voting (due to the pandemic). That's why mere recounts won't find fraud, but a forensic audit (checking addresses, ballot-paper integrity etc) might.
As 2020 was so profoundly different, in terms of how folk voted, surely it's only fair to allow a forensic audit?
I get you don't trust the Cyber Ninjas. I'm undecided on them, as I've read as much good feedback as bad. I'll wait 'n see what they release as and when they do.
Mail in voting has been used for years with no problems, heck Oregon only has mail in voting!
Vote-by-mail in Oregon - Wikipedia
Florida has used it extensively, it is particularly popular among retired GOP supporters.https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-ron-desantis-legislation-florida-elections-a9737fcc3eab5aedc572fbcc7c19b984
The only reason that suddenly the GOP is claiming it can be used for fraud is this election more democrats used it as they were more nervous of catching COVID at traditional voting centers,
And no, I don’t think we should waste any more time or public money on ”forensic audits“ of any kind - let alone such rankly partisan ones as this. Where does it end - should Gore be able to go back and do a forensic audit of all 2000 Florida votes?!
Above and beyond the usual checks were made to ensure this election was fair - both in recounts/audit/court cases/internal DOJ investigations. Nothing was found, apart from a couple of Trump voters who double voted.
The time to put up or shut up has passed - Trump lost.
dholliday
deconstructed rep
Exactly, the bolded bit alone justifies at least one forensic audit.
If that reveals nothing, then it will be time to shut up.
And no, of course we shouldn't be going back to 2000, or even 2016/18. Just the 2020 one. Just one single forensic audit on one county. That's all.
That in itself should not be too much to ask the Dems to accept. Tho' I recognise you & many others have reservations as to the neutrality/seriousness of the auditors. But first, let's see what they pull out the bag, and how seriously we should take it.
for argument's sake, Legs...what if they really do find evidence of fraud? Actual real indisputable evidence? For example by way of tens-of-thousands of fake mail-in votes. Just for argument's sake...what then?
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