Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

[roydo]

You can't seriously look at the death toll in places like South Korea and New Zealand and think that the scale of disaster in the US and UK was unavoidable. Trump and Johnson have failed and it doesn't really matter who started it because they had enough time to respond correctly and didn't.

Our PM and Government recognised the virus pretty quickly, and time will tell how well or badly we did or do

 

[Tubey]

You can't seriously look at the death toll in places like South Korea and New Zealand and think that the scale of disaster in the US and UK was unavoidable. Trump and Johnson have failed and it doesn't really matter who started it because they had enough time to respond correctly and didn't.

They aren't comparable because of population density and western culture. It is again disingenuous to make that comparison.

Their actions have certainly made it worse than if someone competent was in charge, but the vast majority of the blame and ire should be placed on China and China alone.

 

[Grinch]

You can't seriously look at the death toll in places like South Korea and New Zealand and think that the scale of disaster in the US and UK was unavoidable. Trump and Johnson have failed and it doesn't really matter who started it because they had enough time to respond correctly and didn't.

One group has a total of 70 million people and the other group has 400 plus million. And I know the next is going to be “per capita” but that’s all BS. UK and US and a lot more dense than the other two. Simple as if you have 25 people in the same room. They will get sick a lot quicker and easier than people in 25 separate rooms. It was impossible to prevent this but better measures could have been in place

 

[TheBigIguana]

They aren't comparable because of population density and western culture. It is again disingenuous to make that comparison.

Their actions have certainly made it worse than if someone competent was in charge, but the vast majority of the blame and ire should be placed on China and China alone.

Not comparable because you don't want to compare them. South Korea is more dense than the US. In fact on that basis NZ and Australia are two of the best comparisons as far as developed countries go. Is the culture there not considered Western? I genuinely think the US if it operates correctly should be right in line with those two and instead we are the worst hit in the world.

I know you want to blame China because it's easy and it allows you to continue to operate with a feeling of superiority or whatever, but have you thought about what this says about our leadership if another disaster hits? Say an earthquake devastates California next week and Trump botches that response. Does he get a pass because it was an "act of God?" Or does there come a point where his inability is actually an issue?

 

[TheBigIguana]

One group has a total of 70 million people and the other group has 400 plus million. And I know the next is going to be “per capita” but that’s all BS. UK and US and a lot more dense than the other two. Simple as if you have 25 people in the same room. They will get sick a lot quicker and easier than people in 25 separate rooms. It was impossible to prevent this but better measures could have been in place

The US is not a dense country!

 

[Tubey]

Not comparable because you don't want to compare them. South Korea is more dense than the US. In fact on that basis NZ and Australia are two of the best comparisons as far as developed countries go. Is the culture there not considered Western? I genuinely think the US if it operates correctly should be right in line with those two and instead we are the worst hit in the world.

I know you want to blame China because it's easy and it allows you to continue to operate with a feeling of superiority or whatever, but have you thought about what this says about our leadership if another disaster hits? Say an earthquake devastates California next week and Trump botches that response. Does he get a pass because it was an "act of God?" Or does there come a point where his inability is actually an issue?

No, they're not comparable because they're not comparable. You're simply highlighting your own political bias.

 

[Tubey]

One group has a total of 70 million people and the other group has 400 plus million. And I know the next is going to be “per capita” but that’s all BS. UK and US and a lot more dense than the other two. Simple as if you have 25 people in the same room. They will get sick a lot quicker and easier than people in 25 separate rooms. It was impossible to prevent this but better measures could have been in place

It's culture too. Asian countries have populations that routinely walk round wearing masks and have death with pandemic threats in their recent history. They aren't comparable to western culture.

I shouldn't even have to explain the difference between the UK/USA and NZ. Check the density of London compared to other EU capital cities for a clue.

 

[roydo]

South Korea is more dense than the US

Either way, and not defending the US, but S Korea had an epidemic 4 or 5 years ago. They know what to do. And were prepared.

Pretty sure if this pandemic happened again in 2025, the West would be way better at dealing with it.

 

[Grinch]

The US is not a dense country!

The spots that it hit hard are. New York and California have as many people as all of the UK and South Korea and 12x as many as New Zealand

 

[TheBigIguana]

The spots that it hit hard are. New York and California have as many people as all of the UK and South Korea and 12x as many as New Zealand

If you take out NY the US is still doing well worse. Beyond that it starts to get a bit ridiculous to go "well if you ignore here here and here, we're doing alright." NZ has cities iirc. Seoul isn't a desolate place either.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Either way, and not defending the US, but S Korea had an epidemic 4 or 5 years ago. They know what to do. And were prepared.

Pretty sure if this pandemic happened again in 2025, the West would be way better at dealing with it.

They aren't the only ones though. Australia, NZ, Germany to an extent, Poland, and many more that don't have any of the caveats that South Korea have handled it better. And when you're taking the US, density isn't an excuse either especially with European countries. Overall the US is closer to Australia than Germany.

 

[Prevenger17]

Why shouldn't they?

It's like someone having a truck of cow manure tipped onto them and instead of blaming the person who tipped it, instead blaming the person it got tipped on because he couldn't clean it up fast enough.

There's a weird consistent attempt to not blame China for this because it's more convenient to lay it politically on Johnson and Trumps door. I just don't get how people don't see the bigger picture.

None of this happened because of Boris Johnson or Donald Trump. That's an inconvenient truth for some. Their inaction and incompetence compounded the issue, but it wasn't they themselves that caused it in the first instance.

So when Trump says "blame China", it'd be nice if the media actually did, because they could then at least turn round and say "... but after the fact, your decision to X, Y and Z didn't help mitigate the damage" etc. without being disingenuous and using the situation solely to go on the attack.

FWIW I'm with you mate, China is most assuredly to blame for the virus. But I think the conversations people are having on here revolve around the national response to it because it's a controllable and something we can have a stake in, not to mention being a far more urgent consideration right now. To veer back on topic here, the problem most sensible people have with Trump is that he's not only blaming China for the virus, he's blaming it for his own clownish response along with Obama, the CDC, WHO, the media and the lack of bleach circulating in people's bodies.

 

[TheBigIguana]

It's culture too. Asian countries have populations that routinely walk round wearing masks and have death with pandemic threats in their recent history. They aren't comparable to western culture.

I shouldn't even have to explain the difference between the UK/USA and NZ. Check the density of London compared to other EU capital cities for a clue.

I'm mostly talking about the US since this is the POTUS thread, and our density isn't so different from NZ's that the result should be this different. Nor, as far as I'm aware, is NZ an Asian country with the standard public health set ups that those countries regularly practice.

As far as I'm concerned it is completely fair to compare countries while acknowledging the inherent differences they have. And as far as I'm concerned the discrepancy between the US's 24 deaths per 100,000 people and NZ's .43 can't be explained away by those inherent differences. At some point the government response is to blame for that.

And to bring it full circle, this is why you can't only blame China. Because even though they started it, there were things to do to handle it and Trump did not do them.

 

[roydo]

Because even though they started it, there were things to do to handle it and Trump did not do them.

Oh for sure. No disagreement there.

 

[Rook]

Why shouldn't they?

It's like someone having a truck of cow manure tipped onto them and instead of blaming the person who tipped it, instead blaming the person it got tipped on because he couldn't clean it up fast enough.

There's a weird consistent attempt to not blame China for this because it's more convenient to lay it politically on Johnson and Trumps door. I just don't get how people don't see the bigger picture.

None of this happened because of Boris Johnson or Donald Trump. That's an inconvenient truth for some. Their inaction and incompetence compounded the issue, but it wasn't they themselves that caused it in the first instance.

So when Trump says "blame China", it'd be nice if the media actually did, because they could then at least turn round and say "... but after the fact, your decision to X, Y and Z didn't help mitigate the damage" etc. without being disingenuous and using the situation solely to go on the attack.

OK its China's fault, its all china's fault. Now what? What to have a trade embargo or sanctions? It might work! After all I'm sure you will be able to cripple China's thriving double decker bus refrigerator magnet manufacturing industry and surely this will bring them under the heel of the mighty British Empire.