Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

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TheFinnFan said:
Thats true but I think we will see soon that this Russian case is just another one in long list of force fed narratives that were seen during this election
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Then why not just wait and see and keep an open mind on the allegations?

If true they are serious enough to warrant investigation - should be left to Floridan Americans to mess with presidential elections not bloody foreigners ;)
 
LinekersLegs said:
There is a significant difference between deporting illegal aliens that have just crossed the border (Obama's policy) and Trump's proposals of deporting millions who have lived here for years including the "dreamer" children many of whom know of no other country than the USA despite all having the label illegal aliens. Perhaps when it actually come to it those proposals won't be implemented but as a resident of an area that has a large number of the latter illegal aliens it would be hugely disruptive not just to families involved but the entire local economy in a way Obama's policy isn't so to say they should be treated the same is daft.
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Going back to this, Legs...I haven't find anything to back up your claim. I found this from ABC:

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President Barack Obama has often been referred to by immigration groups as the "Deporter in Chief."

Between 2009 and 2015 his administration has removed more than 2.5 million people through immigration orders, which doesn’t include the number of people who "self-deported" or were turned away and/or returned to their home country at the border by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP).
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And also these articles don't support your statement:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...mber-immigrants-trump-claim-article-1.2774180

Even Snopes:

http://www.snopes.com/obama-deported-more-people/


Here is the important bit:

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One distinct feature of the record number of deportations is the increasing share of deportations by U.S. Customs and Border Protection after border apprehension. In 2013, 25% of all deportations were carried out by the agency, up from 17% in 2012. Meanwhile, the number of deportations carried out by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which deports people caught both at the border and the interior of the country, fell in 2013 compared with 2012.
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You gave the impression Obama was doing 'good deporting' while Trump will only do 'bad deporting'. I expect better from you x
 
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dholliday said:
Going back to this, Legs...I haven't find anything to back up your claim. I found this from ABC:

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President Barack Obama has often been referred to by immigration groups as the "Deporter in Chief."

Between 2009 and 2015 his administration has removed more than 2.5 million people through immigration orders, which doesn’t include the number of people who "self-deported" or were turned away and/or returned to their home country at the border by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP).
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And also these articles don't support your statement:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...mber-immigrants-trump-claim-article-1.2774180

Even Snopes:

http://www.snopes.com/obama-deported-more-people/
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Oh Obama definitely has deported people that have been here a while, some of whom for very trivial offenses. But when I looked into it in the past the data suggestsd that the bulk of his deportations were people who were picked up quite soon after crossing the border, something like within 6 months, I'll try and dig out my sources.
(That ABC article suggests a similar focus
"With the focus on criminals and not families, the administration has moved away from those living and working in the U.S. without a criminal history. Felons, not families. Criminals, not children. Gang members, not a mom who’s working hard to provide for her kids. We’ll prioritize, just like law enforcement does every day," Obama said in November 2014 when announcing his executive action on immigration.")

He certainly didn't go after the dreamers, in fact tried to put in place a system to give them a path to legality which when it didn't pass Congress he stopped their deportation by executive decree - something that Trump has vowed to revoke on his first day of office.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/trump-obama-immigrations-dreamers-232149
 
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LinekersLegs said:
Oh Obama definitely has deported people that have been here a while, some of whom for very trivial offenses. But when I looked into it in the past the data suggestsd that the bulk of his deportations were people who were picked up quite soon after crossing the border, something like within 6 months, I'll try and dig out my sources.

He certainly didn't go alter the dreamers, in fact tried to put in place a system to give them a path to legality which when it didn't pass Congress he stopped their deportation by executive decree - something that Trump has vowed to revoke on his first day of office.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/trump-obama-immigrations-dreamers-232149
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It's an average of 20% - that's if we're counting those made at the border, which was your initial claim.

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One distinct feature of the record number of deportations is the increasing share of deportations by U.S. Customs and Border Protection after border apprehension. In 2013, 25% of all deportations were carried out by the agency, up from 17% in 2012. Meanwhile, the number of deportations carried out by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which deports people caught both at the border and the interior of the country, fell in 2013 compared with 2012.
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I think as ever with Trump we have to wait 'n see what he's actually gonna do. Expecting the worst is perhaps a sound tactic as then he may well turn out better than expected. Regarding 'the dreamers', it appears he's softening his stance:

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...tance-on-dreamers-may-spur-a-fix-senators-say

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/07/us/immigration-dreamers-trump.html


Give Trump a chance, I say :cheers:
 
dholliday said:
It's an average of 20% - that's if we're counting those made at the border, which was your initial claim.

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One distinct feature of the record number of deportations is the increasing share of deportations by U.S. Customs and Border Protection after border apprehension. In 2013, 25% of all deportations were carried out by the agency, up from 17% in 2012. Meanwhile, the number of deportations carried out by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which deports people caught both at the border and the interior of the country, fell in 2013 compared with 2012.
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I think as ever with Trump we have to wait 'n see what he's actually gonna do. Expecting the worst is perhaps a sound tactic as then he may well turn out better than expected. Regarding 'the dreamers', it appears he's softening his stance:

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...tance-on-dreamers-may-spur-a-fix-senators-say

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/07/us/immigration-dreamers-trump.html


Give Trump a chance, I say :cheers:
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Which is somewhat different data from this, think it fair to say that Obama's approach has changed over the years - perhaps Trump's will as well.
http://www.npr.org/2016/08/31/49196...-about-obamas-enforcement-of-immigration-laws
President Obama's approach to immigration enforcement is really two very different approaches: one for those caught near the border, the other for immigrants found living illegally in the interior. How long an immigrant has been here makes a difference as well. Like others before it, the Obama administration says it doesn't have the resources or the desire to deport millions of immigrants whose only crime was entering the country illegally. So, it has focused its enforcement efforts on particular targets: namely those caught near the border, those who've committed crimes and those who appear to have arrived in 2014 or later.

"The result is sharply different enforcement pictures at the border and within the United States," according to a report from the nonpartisan Migration Policy Institute. "At the border, there is a near zero tolerance system, where unauthorized immigrants are increasingly subject to formal removal and criminal charges. Within the country, there is greater flexibility."

In the last year of the Bush administration, 64 percent of deportations were from the interior of the country. By last year, interior deportations had shrunk to less than 30 percent of the total. While the Obama administration has focused enforcement efforts along the border, not everyone apprehended there is a new, first-time arrival. Some may have longstanding ties and family members elsewhere in the U.S. The administration stresses that a growing proportion of those who are deported have criminal records: 59 percent last year, up from 31 percent in fiscal year 2008."
 
LinekersLegs said:
Which is somewhat different data from this, think it fair to say that Obama's approach has changed over the years - perhaps Trump's will as well.
http://www.npr.org/2016/08/31/49196...-about-obamas-enforcement-of-immigration-laws
President Obama's approach to immigration enforcement is really two very different approaches: one for those caught near the border, the other for immigrants found living illegally in the interior. How long an immigrant has been here makes a difference as well. Like others before it, the Obama administration says it doesn't have the resources or the desire to deport millions of immigrants whose only crime was entering the country illegally. So, it has focused its enforcement efforts on particular targets: namely those caught near the border, those who've committed crimes and those who appear to have arrived in 2014 or later.

"The result is sharply different enforcement pictures at the border and within the United States," according to a report from the nonpartisan Migration Policy Institute. "At the border, there is a near zero tolerance system, where unauthorized immigrants are increasingly subject to formal removal and criminal charges. Within the country, there is greater flexibility."

In the last year of the Bush administration, 64 percent of deportations were from the interior of the country. By last year, interior deportations had shrunk to less than 30 percent of the total. While the Obama administration has focused enforcement efforts along the border, not everyone apprehended there is a new, first-time arrival. Some may have longstanding ties and family members elsewhere in the U.S. The administration stresses that a growing proportion of those who are deported have criminal records: 59 percent last year, up from 31 percent in fiscal year 2008."
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okay, i think we're meeting somewhere in the middle now between each of our original points (which were both exaggerated for effect).

DH: one rule for Obama, another rule for Trump. One can deport 3 million illegals without criticism, and one cannot.

LL: There is a significant difference between deporting illegal aliens that have just crossed the border (Obama's policy) and Trump's proposals of deporting millions who have lived here for years including the "dreamer" children many of whom know of no other country than the USA despite all having the label illegal aliens.


The reality, as ever, is more nuanced, with lots of important detail and much more still out in the open, seen as Trump hasn't even began taking office yet.


Would you think it might be fair to generally calm the more rabid criticism of Trump for a while until he actually does some things? He may not be the Bogeyman he's (perhaps unfairly) made out to be. And when we have this calm, debate between two opposing sides might improve.

Of course, if he does end up being the bogeyman then y'all must turn up in 2020 and vote him the hell out!
 
Re. the Russian influence.

I doubt very much this had much, if any bearing on the result.

The States were caught between a rock and a hard place in the election. Having to choose between Trump or Clinton is like the antithesis of choosing which of your kids you have to save in some awful emergency. You want all your kids to live and don't want either Trump or Clinton to be president.

Quite frankly I have little sympathy with our American friends though. If you have a system which ends up with Clinton and Trump being selected by the Republicans and Democrats then you deserve whatever you get.

Obviously we have a system which ends up with Corbyn as the leader of the opposition in the UK, so I'm not really in any place to judge, but that doesn't suit my agenda so I'm going to ignore it.
 
Woolly Blue said:
Re. the Russian influence.

I doubt very much this had much, if any bearing on the result.

The States were caught between a rock and a hard place in the election. Having to choose between Trump or Clinton is like the antithesis of choosing which of your kids you have to save in some awful emergency. You want all your kids to live and don't want either Trump or Clinton to be president.

Quite frankly I have little sympathy with our American friends though. If you have a system which ends up with Clinton and Trump being selected by the Republicans and Democrats then you deserve whatever you get.

Obviously we have a system which ends up with Corbyn as the leader of the opposition in the UK, so I'm not really in any place to judge, but that doesn't suit my agenda so I'm going to ignore it.
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What's wrong with Jeremy? Find a single thing that he believes that you think is wrong?
 
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