Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

[ilikecheese]

*waits for the anti-Zionist fella to pop in

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

Whether these things are true or not (they're probably not), pretending there isn't considerable support for getting out of the Iran deal is silly. It was highly controversial at the time and was a notable campaign issue.

“They’re probably not”... yeah... ok.

I’m not “pretending” anything. Considerable support? Maybe, but notably from pretty much no one with a respected view on foreign policy and/or national security. And that’s on both sides of the ideological spectrum.

Is there support from Trump’s base? Of course there is, but there’s support there for whatever he does, and particularly if it involves tearing down something of Obama’s. There’s a reason the public don’t get to consult on national security decisions.

Even Trump’s own advisors (apart from a couple of hawks and idealogues) are against withdrawing.

Pulling out of this deal is asinine, even if you don’t like it. (God knows the deal wasn’t perfect). Literally all that happens is that Iran can restart their nuclear program.

The US doesn’t get back the “barrels of cash” that they gave to Iran - which was actually Iran’s own money, but let’s not quibble over little things called facts eh?

It doesn’t stop them sponsoring terrorism - they did that before the deal, they did it during the deal and they’ll do it after it’s dead.

One of the biggest complaints is the sunset clause. “Hey, this deal lets them restart their program in 10-15yrs. **** it, we’re out! They can restart NOW”

Oh and let’s toss in what message does this send to North Korea? “Hey, negotiate with us and come to a deal over nuclear weapons. We definitely won’t pull out of it next time the President needs to shift the news cycle”

 

[Pettifogger]

This whole exchange was about me calling Graham and people like him hypocrites. I am glad you agree.

The whole exchange was you getting rustled about me making a topical post.

 

[tsubaki]

Whether these things are true or not (they're probably not), pretending there isn't considerable support for getting out of the Iran deal is silly. It was highly controversial at the time and was a notable campaign issue.

That is the thing though - there isn't considerable support for getting out of the Iran deal, it matters not a jot to the vast majority of the US population.

However it is an issue for which the big two foreign lobbies are in agreement, so we see them, their politicians and their shills in the media talk the outrage of it up to the extent that they've just managed to get the US President to piss in the chips of all of the rest of the world without any plan to do anything else.

 

[Blue 1]

Netanyahu must have convinced him with his diagrams.

FFS.

 

[peteblue]

I think Trump is calling this correctly......

 

[MrPerfectNot]

Now he'll offer to renegotiate - it's steel tariffs all over again.

President Trump has the legal right to pull out of the deal - I think it's a bone-headed move, but he does have that right. Better approach would have been to set a 6 month window for re-negotiation, layout objections and expectations of reasonable terms and attempt to reach a new deal.

But then that's not his style - and the US suffers for his style, as well as lack of policy understanding.

 

[Pettifogger]

“They’re probably not”... yeah... ok.

I’m not “pretending” anything. Considerable support? Maybe, but notably from pretty much no one with a respected view on foreign policy and/or national security. And that’s on both sides of the ideological spectrum.

Is there support from Trump’s base? Of course there is, but there’s support there for whatever he does, and particularly if it involves tearing down something of Obama’s. There’s a reason the public don’t get to consult on national security decisions.

Even Trump’s own advisors (apart from a couple of hawks and idealogues) are against withdrawing.

Pulling out of this deal is asinine, even if you don’t like it. (God knows the deal wasn’t perfect). Literally all that happens is that Iran can restart their nuclear program.

The US doesn’t get back the “barrels of cash” that they gave to Iran - which was actually Iran’s own money, but let’s not quibble over little things called facts eh?

It doesn’t stop them sponsoring terrorism - they did that before the deal, they did it during the deal and they’ll do it after it’s dead.

One of the biggest complaints is the sunset clause. “Hey, this deal lets them restart their program in 10-15yrs. **** it, we’re out! They can restart NOW”

Oh and let’s toss in what message does this send to North Korea? “Hey, negotiate with us and come to a deal over nuclear weapons. We definitely won’t pull out of it next time the President needs to shift the news cycle”

This is less than candid. Almost 200 retired generals and admirals opposed the deal. A ton of tepid supporters, like Kenneth Pollack and Bill Tobey, think Obama bungled the deal but feel like we're stuck with it now. Even more proponents, including Obama administration folks like Eisenhorn, have come out ringing alarm bells about the deal things as time goes on. Even you seemingly know it wasn't a well-brokered deal for US interests.

No, we don't get the money we inexplicably unfroze which enabled Iran to spend lavishly one expanding influence throughout conflict zones in the region. That's a shame.

Cancelling the deal won't end Iranian terror sponsorship. What it will do is untie our hands. Iran has unquestionably been on the march since the deal went into effect. However, the US has been extremely timid to step on toes in a way that puts the deal in jeopardy.

 

[ilikecheese]

Trump needs a war. It's as simple as that.

 

[Pettifogger]

Now he'll offer to renegotiate - it's steel tariffs all over again.

President Trump has the legal right to pull out of the deal - I think it's a bone-headed move, but he does have that right. Better approach would have been to set a 6 month window for re-negotiation, layout objections and expectations of reasonable terms and attempt to reach a new deal.

But then that's not his style - and the US suffers for his style, as well as lack of policy understanding.

But do we, ultimately? My instinct is to agree, let's do the renegotiation window and set the table for additional concessions from Iran. That's the political and foreign policy paradigm I'm from.

Trump would likely respond that given we very rarely enforce our "red lines," the entity across the table doesn't find us credible and won't believe our bolder threats. Which is...absolutely correct. It would be six months wasted and if we got better terms, they wouldn't be the best terms available.

 

[Ruairi77]

reporter - How will exiting the deal make America safer.
Trump - Exiting the deal will make America safer

bone headed idiot,
Breaking rank with allies, making it difficult to be trusted in future international deals.

He's wrecking this country

 

[davek]

Impeach him and put him out of office asap. He'll destroy us all.

 

[peteblue]

Impeach him and put him out of office asap. He'll destroy us all.

Or maybe save us all. We had a weak chinned pillock waving a piece of paper after a meeting with a nice chap called Hitler and it caused the death of millions. Sometimes a show of strength is the right answer. Anything negotiated or agreed by Obama will be a fudge with a claim of ‘peace in our time’........

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

This is less than candid. Almost 200 retired generals and admirals opposed the deal. A ton of tepid supporters, like Kenneth Pollack and Bill Tobey, think Obama bungled the deal but feel like we're stuck with it now. Even more proponents, including Obama administration folks like Eisenhorn, have come out ringing alarm bells about the deal things as time goes on. Even you seemingly know it wasn't a well-brokered deal for US interests.

No, we don't get the money we inexplicably unfroze which enabled Iran to spend lavishly one expanding influence throughout conflict zones in the region. That's a shame.

Cancelling the deal won't end Iranian terror sponsorship. What it will do is untie our hands. Iran has unquestionably been on the march since the deal went into effect. However, the US has been extremely timid to step on toes in a way that puts the deal in jeopardy.

There is a massive difference between opposing the deal when it was signed (the “200 retired generals”) and advocating unilaterally pulling out of it.

Saying something is “unquestionable” doesn’t make it so.

Pulling out of a deal that the other party is complying with (which EVERYONE sensible agrees on) is insane - and particularly when you’re on the verge of trying to encourage the most unpredictable regime on the planet to sign on to something similar.

If Trump wanted to negotiate additional agreements with Iran to address some of the supposed shortfalls of this one (though they weren’t really shortfalls- this deal aimed to do one thing, and has done so until today) I would be all for it.

Going back on the country’s word is simply stupid.

If this is such a good decision maybe you can explain why Trump felt the need to wilfully misrepresent almost everything he discussed in his announcement speech?

 

[davek]

Or maybe save us all. We had a weak chinned pillock waving a piece of paper after a meeting with a nice chap called Hitler and it caused the death of millions. Sometimes a show of strength is the right answer. Anything negotiated or agreed by Obama will be a fudge with a claim of ‘peace in our time’........

I'll remember that a second before being incinerated.