Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

[Pettifogger]

But Trump could be targeted as a player in both of these, we won’t know his full involvement until the investigation is complete so why not just wait and see what happens?

Similarly with the wiretap, this is just one report and it would not be the first time there were claims of tapping Trump phones that came to nothing.

However if there was a wire tap the lawyers I follow on both sides of the political aisle seem to believe that a past transgression wouldn’t be enough, it would have to be something current and to target the presidents lawyer you’d guess there would be something serious as there are several safety mechanisms to prevent abuse


Could it be improper, sure, but unless you believe that there should never be any investigation into anyone surrounding a president I think we need more information to even consider that conclusion.

I find your statement “it would likely be unrelated to POTUS” a pretty big leap of faith in any politician let alone Trump.

I have no choice but to wait and see what happens. I do think, however, there should be some type of end game when the collusion angle strikes out, which I believe it has.

I think people have good reason to doubt the FBI and DOJ considering everything that's happened in the last couple of years, on both sides. While having a legal background probably makes me more deferential to those entities than some, I think it's entirely reasonable to ask questions, like whether there is pressure on Mueller's team to find something significant to justify the cost and attention provided to this investigation. I've said I have no issue with the Cohen referral, so obviously I don't think "there should never be any investigation into anyone surrounding the President."

But, I also have no real inkling (other than my own suspicions about some Cohen real estate deals) about what else the investigation could be on to. Given that, and given that I think there is a sizable portion of our electorate, our agencies and our Congress that want to find something, anything, to use against Trump, I don't think it's all that realistic to expect conservatives to wait indefinitely without at least asking the questions I'm posing.

 

[Pettifogger]

Yeahhh, 20ish years as Trump's self proclaimed "fixer"... can't imagine any of his wrongdoings will be anything to do with Trump.

This is precisely what I'm talking about. No real insight whatsoever as to criminality, but let's dig until we satisfy our "hunch" about Trump/Cohen.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

This is precisely what I'm talking about. No real insight whatsoever as to criminality, but let's dig until we satisfy our "hunch" about Trump/Cohen.

Does it honestly still qualify as a "hunch" though? I mean seriously, it's hardly like everyone's just looking at them going "hmmm, he looks a bit shifty".

 

[Ruairi77]

This is precisely what I'm talking about. No real insight whatsoever as to criminality

how do you know?

 

[Pettifogger]

Does it honestly still qualify as a "hunch" though? I mean seriously, it's hardly like everyone's just looking at them going "hmmm, he looks a bit shifty".

Yes, still a hunch. I mean, I actually - probably - agree with you that Trump and Cohen have probably done some at least borderline stuff in the past. Nonetheless, I'm not going to advocate we go snooping based on my hunch either.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

how do you know?

He doesn't. Nor does he (and the rest of the Right) care one iota. Because they are doing nothing but denigrating and demanding the heads of the people who actually DO have insight into that criminality.

 

[Pettifogger]

how do you know?

How do I know BirkenheadBlue doesn't have any evidence of wrongdoing for Trump/Cohen?

 

[Pettifogger]

He doesn't. Nor does he (and the rest of the Right) care one iota. Because they are doing nothing but denigrating and demanding the heads of the people who actually DO have insight into that criminality.

I haven't done any of that but feel free to go on a weeping tirade all the same.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

Yes, still a hunch. I mean, I actually - probably - agree with you that Trump and Cohen have probably done some at least borderline stuff in the past. Nonetheless, I'm not going to advocate we go snooping based on my hunch either.

You don't think it's in the country's interest to know if the President is potentially compromised by previous "borderline" (or outright illegal) conduct?

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

I haven't done any of that but feel free to go on a weeping tirade all the same.

That last part was linked more to the "rest of the Right" part. But you certainly seem to want the investigation shut down asap. So you know... shades of grey.

 

[Pettifogger]

You don't think it's in the country's interest to know if the President is potentially compromised by previous "borderline" (or outright illegal) conduct?

Sure. I don't think an investigation premised on Russian interference should be a ticket to conduct a criminally-focused investigation into the entirety of the President's history, however.

 

[Pettifogger]

That last part was linked more to the "rest of the Right" part. But you certainly seem to want the investigation shut down asap. So you know... shades of grey.

I want structure. Parameters. I'm probably not going to get it, but that's what I want.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

Sure. I don't think an investigation premised on Russian interference should be a ticket to conduct a criminally-focused investigation into the entirety of the President's history, however.

If evidence of those crimes is uncovered during the course of the investigation of interference/collusion (which by definition would include an investigation of the conduct of the President and those around him) then... c'est la vie.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

I want structure. Parameters. I'm probably not going to get it, but that's what I want.

So if Mueller's team, in the course of investigating potential collusion and interference, uncover evidence of other crimes (whether obstruction, financial crimes, whatever) should it just be ignored?

 

[Pettifogger]

If evidence of those crimes is uncovered during the course of the investigation of interference/collusion (which by definition would include an investigation of the conduct of the President and those around him) then... c'est la vie.

I understand how criminal referrals work. But surely you can understand how open ended that can become.

"We did a criminal referral for Cohen on a campaign finance violation, found at some point that didn't actually occur, but in the process got on the scent of _______."