Does Gareth Southgate deserve more respect and gratitude?

[MikeH72]

I disagree on that. Croatia had already taken control well before HT

Haha well yeah that’s not a defence of Southgate either, it just means we dropped to the edge of our own box earlier than I initially said Almost like it’s tactical and pre planned or something. Almost like it happened after 2 minutes against Italy.

 

[TheBigIguana]

What a shock that you’re looking at something in the most simplistic possible way with no nuance whatsoever.

We should’ve beaten everyone isn’t exactly the most nuanced way to look at it!

Fwiw no England is not significantly more talented to anyone they’ve lost to under Southgate.

 

[MikeH72]

We should’ve beaten everyone isn’t exactly the most nuanced way to look at it!

Fwiw no England is not significantly more talented to anyone they’ve lost to under Southgate.

Yeah that’s not at all one bit what I said though is it. Keep setting up those strawmen though, it’s all you’ve got left.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Well, this thread has certainly started a debate.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Yeah that’s not at all one bit what I said though is it. Keep setting up those strawmen though, it’s all you’ve got left.

I really don’t think it’s a strawman to say semi, final, quarter is really good for a team that has historically done well worse than that. The onus is really on you to explain why that isn’t enough and all you’ve got is the players are better (they aren’t, both compared to who they’re playing and historically) and that it looks bad (it does, but that’s not a results or achievement issue).

Again you (and others) have forgotten who you are and where you come from. Y’all want to act like Germany and Italy but you aren’t that and never have been.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

I really don’t think it’s a strawman to say semi, final, quarter is really good for a team that has historically done well worse than that. The onus is really on you to explain why that isn’t enough and all you’ve got is the players are better (they aren’t, both compared to who they’re playing and historically) and that it looks bad (it does, but that’s not a results or achievement issue).

Again you (and others) have forgotten who you are and where you come from. Y’all want to act like Germany and Italy but you aren’t that and never have been.

Do you think England has an entitlement problem Iggy?

 

[MikeH72]

I really don’t think it’s a strawman to say semi, final, quarter is really good for a team that has historically done well worse than that. The onus is really on you to explain why that isn’t enough and all you’ve got is the players are better (they aren’t, both compared to who they’re playing and historically) and that it looks bad (it does, but that’s not a results or achievement issue).

Again you (and others) have forgotten who you are and where you come from. Y’all want to act like Germany and Italy but you aren’t that and never have been.

You claiming that I said “we should beat everyone” is a strawman, look up the definition.

Do you ever actually read back what you type? I have explained exactly why it isn’t good enough and you completely ignore it and just go “you think we should beat everyone hurr durr”. It’s honestly like conversing with a 10 year old. Absolutely exhausting.

Anyway this hill you’re prepared to die on will age just about as well as your Iwobi fandom has.

 

[MikeH72]

Do you think England has an entitlement problem Iggy?

Football to him is a game where 99% of players don’t kick the ball in their entire careers.

 

[TheBigIguana]

You claiming that I said “we should beat everyone” is a strawman, look up the definition.

Do you ever actually read back what you type? I have explained exactly why it isn’t good enough and you completely ignore it and just go “you think we should beat everyone hurr durr”. It’s honestly like conversing with a 10 year old. Absolutely exhausting.

Anyway this hill you’re prepared to die on will age just about as well as your Iwobi fandom has.

Your explanation is essentially that they should have won the games! That’s not an answer, sometimes you don’t win games. Yes they went ahead against Italy and Croatia and then they lost because those are both good teams who can beat you. That’s disappointing and maybe even Southgate’s fault. What it is not is underachievement.

 

[MikeH72]

Your explanation is essentially that they should have won the games! That’s not an answer, sometimes you don’t win games. Yes they went ahead against Italy and Croatia and then they lost because those are both good teams who can beat you. That’s disappointing and maybe even Southgate’s fault. What it is not is underachievement.

No it isn’t, once again a straw man.

“We got to a World Cup semi final, that’s an achievement”

“No it isn’t because we beat Panama, Tunisia, Colombia without their best player, and Sweden to get there”

Please prove that second statement wrong for me. If you want to argue that it’s achieving the absolute bare minimum, then I might come around to that theory.

 

[TheBigIguana]

No it isn’t, once again a straw man.

“We got to a World Cup semi final, that’s an achievement”

“No it isn’t because we beat Panama, Tunisia, Colombia without their best player, and Sweden to get there”

Please prove that second statement wrong for me. If you want to argue that it’s achieving the absolute bare minimum, then I might come around to that theory.

The tournament before they lost to Iceland mate. It’s an achievement.

You’ve forgotten where you come from.

 

[Evertonthat]

Gareth Southgate has come into this tournament trying to fit players in, and not playing players in their natural position. He hasent adapted his style of play. No plan B. Decided to experiment with Trent in midfield during a tournament when he's had 2 years to find a regular DM.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Do you think England has an entitlement problem Iggy?

There’s certainly something to be said about a group that is disappointed in going from losing to Iceland one summer to a World Cup semi final the next tournament and looking at it as a poor performance!

 

[MikeH72]

The tournament before they lost to Iceland mate. It’s an achievement.

You’ve forgotten where you come from.

Sean Dyche has overachieved as Everton manager (11th without points deduction) because recent history shows we’re a crap relegation battling side that finishes 16th and we need to remember who we are and where we’ve come from.

Do you agree?

 

[TheBigIguana]

Gareth Southgate has come into this tournament trying to fit players in, and not playing players in their natural position. He hasent adapted his style of play. No plan B. Decided to experiment with Trent in midfield during a tournament when he's had 2 years to find a regular DM.

The Trent nonsense is, imo, the strongest Southgate criticism. However he can still fix that.

The second biggest is persisting with letting Harry Kane do whatever the hell he wants and not making him do his damn job.