After being tonked 3-1 at home vs promoted team.
[edit] actually, chance he means what his reaction is to it, but even so - pffft.
After being tonked 3-1 at home vs promoted team.
[edit] actually, chance he means what his reaction is to it, but even so - pffft.
Toffe3m4n
Player Valuation: £80m
....so when do we actually attempt to seriously change that??
MACCA75
Player Valuation: £70m
It’s not all on Moyes by any stretch, but my god I’m tired of this club bottling any opportunity to progress.
How many soft cup ties have we been handed in recent years? Thinking Luton at home, Sunderland at home, Bournemouth at home, Southampton at home, Fulham at home, Leicester at home.. the list is endless, and we seem to have lost every single one, only ever beating league 2 dirge.
And then how many times this season did we have the chance to cement ourselves in the top 6? Blew it every single time.
I hoped the new owners and new stadium would mean a change of mentality, but since ‘95 it’s just stained into the fabric of the club. Just utterly fed up of it.
How many soft cup ties have we been handed in recent years? Thinking Luton at home, Sunderland at home, Bournemouth at home, Southampton at home, Fulham at home, Leicester at home.. the list is endless, and we seem to have lost every single one, only ever beating league 2 dirge.
And then how many times this season did we have the chance to cement ourselves in the top 6? Blew it every single time.
I hoped the new owners and new stadium would mean a change of mentality, but since ‘95 it’s just stained into the fabric of the club. Just utterly fed up of it.
Now. We recruit well this Summer and go for Europe next season, we do that again the year after, build and build. It's a progression.
One decent Summer after finishing in a European Conference League place and we have one hand on a trophy let's be honest.
Blue peter
Player Valuation: £40m
Why are you citing the last 5 or 6 years? We are talking about this season, and the opportunities that presented themselves to us throughout the season. Where only six games or so ago, we were in a strong position to qualify for Europe.
I wonder if Villa remembers where they had been for the last five or six years prior to them making a managerial change, appointing Emery and then qualifying for Europe, or Leicester when the won the league having only just escaped relegation by the skin of their teeth the previous season. Context is important to an extent but should not hold the club back from making changes to improve our performance.
What I do agree with you on is that they are unlikely to get rid of him in light of Kinnear’s statement which is disappointing. Making a change at seasons end is the least disruptive change you can make other than a contract expiring and with the managers currently available, this feels like the perfect time to consider it. The club don’t appear to see it that way though.
There isnt a big difference between crap teams like Everton, Leeds, Sunderland and ultra crap teams like West Ham and Spurs. So without a few very lucky wins (Palace, Fulham (away) and a few more) Everton could be in West Hams situation. Moyes is very lucky but him and the team are utter crap!
But the club higher ups will have given Moyes/squad a remit this season, and that remit likely wasn't qualifying for Europe let's be honest. He will have achieved what was set out for him even if it's disappointing given how average the whole league was this year.
That’s broadly the point though, whether the recruitment was good or bad is impossible to properly judge when the players haven’t really been trusted or integrated into the first team. Moreover, I'd say the style of player we have recruited is not the style of player Moyes would typically buy (which is why I struggle with believing he signed them all off).
If Moyes had us comfortably pushing Europe, performing better in the cups and with exciting performances, I could forgive prioritising continuity and experience.
But we’ve drifted badly in the second half of the season (particularly in the last month), exited cups with a whimper (despite some of the younger players showing promise in those games), while still relying on the same core players every week regardless of form or fatigue.
The frustration for me isn’t even that every young signing should be starting, it’s that there seems to be no pathway or adaptation of the team at all. We already look to have written off a good number of last summers signings.
I think, you may disagree, Dibling, Aznou, George, Rohl were recruited with a different type of football and longer term profile in mind, but the manager defaults back to safety every time. That creates a disconnect between recruitment strategy and coaching philosophy that I mentioned in my earlier post.
At times when we've had opportunity to do something different we’ve barely explored any alternatives. The team has been predictable for a lot of the year and where we have seen performances dip from the core group, the response is usually more conservatism.
That’s why I said the club feels uncertain about what it wants to be. If the ambition is genuinely to grow into a progressive, attacking side competing for Europe - recruitment and management have to align around that. Otherwise you end up spending heavily on young technical players only to treat them like developmental risks while depending on ageing “trusted” options to push for Europe, but eventually grind out midtable.
Again, some might say midtable stability after recent seasons isn’t meaningless progress, but if the project rhetoric is about building towards something better, there has to eventually be evidence of that transition on the pitch too.
I'm not certain it's achievable with Moyes current mindset- so either the strategy changes or the manager needs to (however that might be).
In the past Moyes was very good at signing players for small fees and improving them.
Football has changed so much in recent years that managers are not really in charge of transfers as they were in the past.
It seems to me that neither Aznou or Dibling were Moyes signings and consequently he has largely ignored them all season.
I think Moyes could still play a very positive role at the club but given his age it is clear that he won't be at the club for the longer term.
Saint Domingo
Player Valuation: £90m
Took everything in my power to not write "stop playing the same 11 week in, week out and being frightened of having some ambition you bloody dinosaur!"One of the best and most balanced posts I`ve read out of some 2700 posts in this thread.
You should send that to the club
I thought a more considered approach might be more helpful.
He looks shellshocked.
Ray Atteveld's Kit
Player Valuation: Free Transfer
But as you say, that was in the past, and the game has moved on now. Look at the interview Matt`Jackson at Wolves on how Brexit has impacted their youth set up with the big clubs hoovering up all the talent paying obscene salaries to 16 year olds. And again, an upstairs role would be required to overhaul all areas of the club with a medium and long term strategy. Moyes has no experience of doing this, so why hire him just because he was a manager here. I don't understand why some fans struggle to move on from the past, and Moyes is very much yesterdays man
Blue peter
Player Valuation: £40m
Even if it wasn’t Europe I’d imagine it would have been at least top 10, maybe a cup run target, and a squad development target.
If there was an internal target less than that, it wasn’t worth much and I’d be scrutinising the performance of the board member who set the target. This season we’ve had no No cup runs, outside top 10, barely any improvement in key performance stats and barely any young player first team integration. It feels to me like Moyes has too much power there.
So the plan is to let the manager who refused to use most of the players he signed off on, to shape our squad for the new manager after this upcoming season? I think that would be a very flaws approach especially when there's going to be some quality managers available this summer
