Current Affairs Culture wars & The rise of grifting

[Oddball]

1. You seem to have picked the most extreme examples of talking heads possible. Particularly those who need shock and content to remain relevant. It's unfortunate that is how YouTube particularly works - but that's the model. More clicks so more revenue. Inevitably YouTube amplifies those voices. Nuance, balance and non partisanship does not sell.
2. My job requires an awareness of current affairs and an awareness of what official announcements are made in relation to national events - this is done through typically the BBC. I can't really avoid it, but it's limited in what it can report through regulation and the need to cater for all audiences. I don't assume the news ends with the BBC - nor should anyone else.
3. If you'll never change your mind - what's the point of the debate? Are you trying to change the mind of others. Who may be similarly stubborn or unwilling to change their mind? The mature thing is to change watch the available evidence.
4. The consistent factor in lockdown policing was the inconsistency and a over reach of legislative powers to policing. There were plenty of examples of heavy handed policing against all "sides". I routinely, on this forum advocated for the right to peaceful protest - whatever the issue. So, I don't agree with your assessment at all. Perhaps you need to consider how your bias skews your view.
5. I am willing to give anyone a chance until they give me reason to doubt it. If someone gives me reason to doubt their sincerity while claiming they want "sensible debate" I usually decide to take the piss.

1/ They were the first ones to come to mind-( i`m dog tired)- Thomas Sowell would`ve been a better example.
2/ "The News"? I`m only really interested in what they`re not telling me.
3/I give my opinion, that`s the point. i`ve been very aware of and involved with the natural world for decades and the "official" line is bogus, i wholeheartedly know it and that`s why my conviction is unshakeable.
4/Are you showing bias by saying "consistently inconsistent" i think it can be more honestly called "two-tier". My experience of the policing in the lockdown is totally different to yours.
5/ Likewise.

 

[Jebus_lives]

1/ They were the first ones to come to mind-( i`m dog tired)- Thomas Sowell would`ve been a better example.
2/ "The News"? I`m only really interested in what they`re not telling me.
3/I give my opinion, that`s the point. i`ve been very aware of and involved with the natural world for decades and the "official" line is bogus, i wholeheartedly know it and that`s why my conviction is unshakeable.
4/Are you showing bias by saying "consistently inconsistent" i think it can be more honestly called "two-tier". My experience of the policing in the lockdown is totally different to yours.
5/ Likewise.

Is it? How do you know what my experience is? Why do you keep attributing positions to people on the forum when it's neither what they've outlined as their position or without asking what that position is?

I had no personal experience of policing during lockdown. But I professional experience and I know that different police areas policed differently during lockdown. And that is shown through the courts and policing statistics.

You've also cited different approaches to policing from anti mask and BLM. Do you have experience of both? If so where are you seeing that distinction? Certainty not the news as you don't watch it.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

I`ve got to pop out now but i will reply later.

As for the last sentence in your post - i do present my self sensibly........until other members get snarky, abusive etc then i go over the top with my silly sense of humour and throw it back double- evidence the misunderstanding i had regarding @longers` post earlier. That said - good post mate ?

Translation - privilege time is over and I have to go back to my cell now.

 

[ChesterBlue]

This clown has massive financial problems so he's joined in on the Evangepublican Snake Oil Grifting Tour.

William F. Buckley would be so proud.

Didn’t he lose his show for being extremely racist if I remember correctly?

Should fit in perfectly to the Republican Party if so

 

[Lobster Johnson]

4/One example-When the lockdown was on there were protests - anti-mask/anti-lockdown and BLM protests. The anti-mask ones were heavily policed with
almost military tactics. At the BLM protests the police who were wobbly wooden-tops took the knee and kept their distance while statues etc were vandalised. We had a two-tier policing system which gave a pass to BLM which is a Far Left organisation.

You'll of course have evidence of this.

 

[Oddball]

You'll of course have evidence of this.

Yes. I thought you would`ve known most of this stuff but anyway-
The statue throw into the harbour in Bristol

Edward Colston statue pulled out of Bristol Harbour

Black Lives Matter demonstrators tore down the statue of the slave trader at an anti-racism protest.

www.bbc.co.uk

Disturbances in Leicester over the last month

Scared would be understatement: UK's Leicester riot witness

A Hindu temple was recently vandalised and a saffron flag outside it was pulled down by unidentified people in East Leicester, triggering riots and violence in the UK city.

www.indiatoday.in

 

[Lobster Johnson]

Yes. I thought you would`ve known most of this stuff but anyway-
The statue throw into the harbour in Bristol

Edward Colston statue pulled out of Bristol Harbour

Black Lives Matter demonstrators tore down the statue of the slave trader at an anti-racism protest.

www.bbc.co.uk

Disturbances in Leicester over the last month

Scared would be understatement: UK's Leicester riot witness

A Hindu temple was recently vandalised and a saffron flag outside it was pulled down by unidentified people in East Leicester, triggering riots and violence in the UK city.

www.indiatoday.in

Neither of those show that BLM demonstrations were less heavily policed than anti-lockdown demonstrations. They show a controversial act of iconoclasm and a riot in Leicester which was neither of the things you mentioned.

 

[Oddball]

Neither of those show that BLM demonstrations were less heavily policed than anti-lockdown demonstrations. They show a controversial act of iconoclasm and a riot in Leicester which was neither of the things you mentioned.

It does show it, there are hundreds if not more demonstrators toppling the statue into the harbour and no police visible let alone "policing" the crowd. I will see if i can find footage of the heavy police tactics during anti-mask demonstrations.
In Leicester the police are standing around watching a Hindu Temple get vandalised.
@Jebus_lives wanted me to elaborate on what i see as a "Far Left" agenda, i gave two-tier policing as one example.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

It does show it, there are hundreds if not more demonstrators toppling the statue into the harbour and no police visible let alone "policing" the crowd. I will see if i can find footage of the heavy police tactics during anti-mask demonstrations.
In Leicester the police are standing around watching a Hindu Temple get vandalised.
@Jebus_lives wanted me to elaborate on what i see as a "Far Left" agenda, i gave two-tier policing as one example.

Well without comparative data, what you've given is opinion. The plural of opinion is not evidence.

 

[Oddball]

Well without comparative data, what you've given is opinion. The plural of opinion is not evidence.

M`lud, with all due disrespect i don`t have to give you evidence. The facts are well known although apparently not by the likes of you.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

M`lud, with all due disrespect i don`t have to give you evidence. The facts are well known although apparently not by the likes of you.

SO what you're showing me is a demonstration in central London being policed like a demonstration in Central London. Now do the other ones you mentioned. You are of course correct that you don't have to give me evidence, but it tends to help if you want people to take your claims seriously.

 

[Oddball]

1/Is it? How do you know what my experience is? Why do you keep attributing positions to people on the forum when it's neither what they've outlined as their position or without asking what that position is?

2/I had no personal experience of policing during lockdown. But I professional experience and I know that different police areas policed differently during lockdown. And that is shown through the courts and policing statistics.

You've also cited different approaches to policing from anti mask and BLM. Do you have experience of both? If so where are you seeing that distinction? Certainty not the news as you don't watch it.

The "news" is heavily censored, edited propaganda which is why i choose to watch independent sources.
1/ I assumed your experience to lockdown was different to mine. I should`ve said "my experience of policing during lockdown must be different to yours"
2/ https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/anti-lockdown-protesters-march-through-broadmead/
This is from the same police area that allowed BLM demonstrators a free rein to do as they please.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

The "news" is heavily censored, edited propaganda which is why i choose to watch independent sources.
1/ I assumed your experience to lockdown was different to mine. I should`ve said "my experience of policing during lockdown must be different to yours"
2/ https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/anti-lockdown-protesters-march-through-broadmead/
This is from the same police area that allowed BLM demonstrators a free rein to do as they please.

HOw many people were at the demonstration in London you linked the video to?

 

[verreauxi]

Neither of those show that BLM demonstrations were less heavily policed than anti-lockdown demonstrations. They show a controversial act of iconoclasm and a riot in Leicester which was neither of the things you mentioned.

Well without comparative data, what you've given is opinion. The plural of opinion is not evidence.

For what it's worth, I believe we already got into this issue on the BLM thread about 2 years ago...but anyways:

Taking into account protest size and duration (thousands for BLM/Extinction rebellion and tens of thousdands for anti-lockdown), you are more likely to be arrested at a BLM protest than at an anti-lockdown protest, and as a BLM protester you are more likely to be arrested for order/disorder violations less for corona virus legislation such as violating the lockdown. This suggests BLM is more policed than anti-mask protests and/or that BLM protests are more prone to order/disorder violations (thereby resulting in more order/disorder arrests than an anti-lockdown protest). Assuming the estimates of protest size are accurate, arrests rates in London are higher at a BLM protest (281/thousands) versus an anti-lockdown protest (374/tens of thousands).



In the USA, the data clearly show that BLM protests are both overwhelmingly peaceful and yet also more prone to harsher policing:
Data are here:

Demonstrations and Political Violence in America: New Data for Summer 2020

The report covers 2020 trends in political violence and demonstrations in the US, focusing on the BLM movement.

acleddata.com

 

[Jebus_lives]

The "news" is heavily censored, edited propaganda which is why i choose to watch independent sources.
1/ I assumed your experience to lockdown was different to mine. I should`ve said "my experience of policing during lockdown must be different to yours"
2/ https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/anti-lockdown-protesters-march-through-broadmead/
This is from the same police area that allowed BLM demonstrators a free rein to do as they please.

That news (should I accept it as credible or not?) shows a peaceful protest, protesting peacefully.

The protestors who "toppled" the statue in Bristol were charged by the CPS.