Don't be surprised. When all else fails resort to the 'anti British/anti western/pro Russian', or some other state, organisation,person the UK/US doesn't like and hasn't liked.
Current Affairs Critically ill man is former Russian spy
- Thread starter GrandOldTeam
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Don't be surprised. When all else fails resort to the 'anti British/anti western/pro Russian', or some other state, organisation,person the UK/US doesn't like and hasn't liked.
Yeah that’s sort of where I am , I’m fairly confident that it was the Russians but there are certainly things in it that are at least worthy of questions. Because people ask questions doesn’t mean they’re doing anything wrong in particular, the likes of the dodgy dossier gives people that right i’d say.
The sheer size of the conspiracy that would be required is as usual another reason I find stuff tough to believe . There would have to be a whole lot of people involved to pursue this to where we are and in general that isn’t how conspiracies work.
I'll spell it out for you...May gets briefed from British Military Intelligence (Not just the MET FFS!). There is and always has been controlled distribution of intelligence between British security services for obvious reasons.
The photos published at Gatwick were taken at international arrivals - they must first pass through this security checkpoint before collecting their main hold luggage form the baggage hall. No mystery here!
Yawn - Who knows? not you and not me for sure - So let's speculate a little...Possibly it was a binary agent, that required the mixing of two much less toxic chemicals to produce the final deadly agent. Maybe that's why there were 2 goons on this trip each carrying a mixer chemical.
Has absolutely no relevance Finucane was murdered by a loyalist paramilitary. Did the British Govt have a hand in his murder? Probably - It was a dirty war fought on both sides. As for bringing the case to court - yeah all for it however, all the witnesses associated with the case are dead so good luck with that.
I will say this though about Finucane. His murderers were no better than those he defended.
[QUOTE="Mutzo Nutzo, post: 6558460, member: 5710"
I'll spell it out for you...May gets briefed from British Military Intelligence (Not just the MET FFS!). There is and always has been controlled distribution of intelligence between British security services for obvious reasons.
British military intelligence. Is this the same military intelligence that launched Operation Mass Appeal? Operation Mass Appeal - Wikipedia
BBC NEWS | UK | MI6 ran 'dubious' Iraq campaign
How the spooks took over the news | The Independent
"In the case of British intelligence, you can see this combination of reckless propaganda and failure of oversight at work in the case of Operation Mass Appeal. This was exposed by the former UN arms inspector Scott Ritter, who describes in his book, Iraq Confidential, how, in London in June 1998, he was introduced to two "black propaganda specialists" from MI6 who wanted him to give them material which they could spread through "editors and writers who work with us from time to time".
In interviews for Flat Earth News, Ritter described how, between December 1997 and June 1998, he had three meetings with MI6 officers who wanted him to give them raw intelligence reports on Iraqi arms procurement. The significance of these reports was that they were all unconfirmed and so none was being used in assessing Iraqi activity. Yet MI6 was happy to use them to plant stories in the media. Beyond that, there is worrying evidence that, when Lord Butler asked MI6 about this during his inquiry into intelligence around the invasion of Iraq, MI6 lied to him".
Planting unconfirmed stories to influence opinions. Disinformation to 'editors who work with us from time to time'? Startling revelation? For political purposes, maybe? Intelligence gatherers or opinion formers?
The intelligence service are more than just 'intelligent gatherers'. They are highly political.
Ex SIS Richard Dearlove - Blair's chief of intelligence - A spokesman for Corbyn said: “Richard Dearlove, who as head of MI6 was involved in the infamous dodgy dossier that helped take us into the disastrous Iraq War, should not be trying to give credence to these entirely false and ridiculous smears (Czech spy false allegations).”
Or another ex - Sir John Scarlett - appeared to intervene in the Scottish referendum debate
Scottish independence: Ex-MI6 boss terror warning - The Scotsman
Military intelligence were found to be wanting for their role in Blair's WMD debacle. The sexed up 45 minutes (grasps of horror from those assembled in parliament) that was used to 'justify' bombing and invading Iraq and the resultant destruction and death of thousands and thousands of Iraqi civilians.
This same 'intelligence gatherers' when Blair wanted to curry favour with Gaddafi organised the rendition of Abdel Hakim and his pregnant wife.
Libyan rendition: how UK's role in kidnap of families came to light ...
But because the 'intelligence gatherers' said that Putin had done it then it must be true. FFS.
The photos published at Gatwick were taken at international arrivals - they must first pass through this security checkpoint before collecting their main hold luggage form the baggage hall. No mystery here!
Really. https://goo.gl/maps/g9HwBR7aiKp … No mystery. This is the exit to the airport not the international exit. Same booth types.
Yawn - Who knows? not you and not me for sure - So let's speculate a little...Possibly it was a binary agent, that required the mixing of two much less toxic chemicals to produce the final deadly agent. Maybe that's why there were 2 goons on this trip each carrying a mixer chemical.
So they mixed it in the hotel, spilt some, put the delivery mechanism in place, sprayed it on the door handle, dissembled it, put it in the box, sealed it and threw it in the charity bin on 4th March to be found in July. Really
Has absolutely no relevance Finucane was murdered by a loyalist paramilitary. Did the British Govt have a hand in his murder? Probably - It was a dirty war fought on both sides. As for bringing the case to court - yeah all for it however, all the witnesses associated with the case are dead so good luck with that.
I will say this though about Finucane. His murderers were no better than those he defended.
Not all the witnesses are dead though. "Did the British Govt have a hand in his murder? Probably'. Others say definitely.
Patrick Finucane (21 March 1949 – 12 February 1989),[1][2] commonly known as Pat Finucane, was an Irish human rights lawyerkilled[3] by loyalist paramilitaries acting in collusion with the British government intelligence service MI5.[4] In 2011 British Prime Minister David Cameron met with Pat Finucane's family and admitted the collusion, although no member of the British security services has yet been prosecuted.[5]
GRU did it Putin guilty. MI5 colluded .....was the PM in 1989 guilty. What really happened and for what reason we may never know for years. But Putin did it, do me a favour FFS.
I'll spell it out for you...May gets briefed from British Military Intelligence (Not just the MET FFS!). There is and always has been controlled distribution of intelligence between British security services for obvious reasons.
British military intelligence. Is this the same military intelligence that launched Operation Mass Appeal? Operation Mass Appeal - Wikipedia
BBC NEWS | UK | MI6 ran 'dubious' Iraq campaign
How the spooks took over the news | The Independent
"In the case of British intelligence, you can see this combination of reckless propaganda and failure of oversight at work in the case of Operation Mass Appeal. This was exposed by the former UN arms inspector Scott Ritter, who describes in his book, Iraq Confidential, how, in London in June 1998, he was introduced to two "black propaganda specialists" from MI6 who wanted him to give them material which they could spread through "editors and writers who work with us from time to time".
In interviews for Flat Earth News, Ritter described how, between December 1997 and June 1998, he had three meetings with MI6 officers who wanted him to give them raw intelligence reports on Iraqi arms procurement. The significance of these reports was that they were all unconfirmed and so none was being used in assessing Iraqi activity. Yet MI6 was happy to use them to plant stories in the media. Beyond that, there is worrying evidence that, when Lord Butler asked MI6 about this during his inquiry into intelligence around the invasion of Iraq, MI6 lied to him".
Planting unconfirmed stories to influence opinions. Disinformation to 'editors who work with us from time to time'? Startling revelation? For political purposes, maybe? Intelligence gatherers or opinion formers?
The intelligence service are more than just 'intelligent gatherers'. They are highly political.
Ex SIS Richard Dearlove - Blair's chief of intelligence - A spokesman for Corbyn said: “Richard Dearlove, who as head of MI6 was involved in the infamous dodgy dossier that helped take us into the disastrous Iraq War, should not be trying to give credence to these entirely false and ridiculous smears (Czech spy false allegations).”
Or another ex - Sir John Scarlett - appeared to intervene in the Scottish referendum debate
Scottish independence: Ex-MI6 boss terror warning - The Scotsman
Military intelligence were found to be wanting for their role in Blair's WMD debacle. The sexed up 45 minutes (grasps of horror from those assembled in parliament) that was used to 'justify' bombing and invading Iraq and the resultant destruction and death of thousands and thousands of Iraqi civilians.
This same 'intelligence gatherers' when Blair wanted to curry favour with Gaddafi organised the rendition of Abdel Hakim and his pregnant wife.
Libyan rendition: how UK's role in kidnap of families came to light ...
But because the 'intelligence gatherers' said that Putin had done it then it must be true. FFS.
The photos published at Gatwick were taken at international arrivals - they must first pass through this security checkpoint before collecting their main hold luggage form the baggage hall. No mystery here!
Really. https://goo.gl/maps/g9HwBR7aiKp … No mystery. This is the exit to the airport not the international exit. Same booth types.
Yawn - Who knows? not you and not me for sure - So let's speculate a little...Possibly it was a binary agent, that required the mixing of two much less toxic chemicals to produce the final deadly agent. Maybe that's why there were 2 goons on this trip each carrying a mixer chemical.
So they mixed it in the hotel, spilt some, put the delivery mechanism in place, sprayed it on the door handle, dissembled it, put it in the box, sealed it and threw it in the charity bin on 4th March to be found in July. Really
Has absolutely no relevance Finucane was murdered by a loyalist paramilitary. Did the British Govt have a hand in his murder? Probably - It was a dirty war fought on both sides. As for bringing the case to court - yeah all for it however, all the witnesses associated with the case are dead so good luck with that.
I will say this though about Finucane. His murderers were no better than those he defended.
Not all the witnesses are dead though. "Did the British Govt have a hand in his murder? Probably'. Others say definitely.
Patrick Finucane (21 March 1949 – 12 February 1989),[1][2] commonly known as Pat Finucane, was an Irish human rights lawyerkilled[3] by loyalist paramilitaries acting in collusion with the British government intelligence service MI5.[4] In 2011 British Prime Minister David Cameron met with Pat Finucane's family and admitted the collusion, although no member of the British security services has yet been prosecuted.[5]
GRU did it Putin guilty. MI5 colluded .....was the PM in 1989 guilty. What really happened and for what reason we may never know for years. But Putin did it, do me a favour FFS.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.1611377,-0.1773794,2a,75y,160.93h,80.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVwMbNKWSg8PjuWKakaOeaA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 … They would have collected their baggage before. This leads out of the airport.
I've learned a lot from this thread. It really does go to show what can be achieved when the mud-flinging stops.
Socrates
Player Valuation: £6m
So, in the latest episode of Carry On Spying, we have two "Highly trained GRU agents" who queued at the British Embassy in Moscow, filled in a 10 page form detailing their reasons for travelling to the UK, had their fingerprints taken, their irises scanned, their height and weight measured followed by an interview with a member of the visa staff.
Armed with their visas, they then booked and took a scheduled flight out of Moscow, arrived at Gatwick and then booked into a grotty hotel, sharing one room with one double bed.
They took 2 trips to Salisbury, seen in glorious full HD, went to the Skripal's house on a Sunday afternoon whilst people were out in their gardens, yet managed to get to the house unseen and coated the front door handle with the world's deadliest nerve agent and strolled back to the station, on to Gatwick and out of the country, landing back in Moscow.
A few points to note.
The GRU were disbanded 10 years ago but let's put that to one side for a moment.
Whilst these two individuals were in Salisbury, the Skripals turned off their phones and GPS tracking.
It's almost like they wanted to meet someone without anyone finding out.
I wonder who that was?
Any footage of the Skripals was grainy and distant. Unlike the "assassins".
This is the same Sergei Skripal who had been meeting with Mark Urban of the BBC for several months prior to the attack.
What were they discussing?
Why didn't the BBC disclose this? It only slipped out by accident and nothing else has been disclosed since.
The room they stayed in had traces of the world's most deadly nerve agent yet no other guests or staff were affected.
A bit like the Skripal's door handle.
Has anyone ever read a spy book? You know, one of those written by a former spy or someone with ties to the security services.
State sanctioned assassinations go something along these lines:
The assassins use passports from a country that isn't theirs, with a false identity to begin with.
They fly to the UK separately from different countries and are picked up by agents already in place.
They are driven in an unidentifiable vehicle to a safe house where they are briefed on their target's movements and a time and place is chosen for the deed.
They travel incognito to the chosen place, shoot the target twice in the chest and once in the head to make sure then make thier getaway.
They go back to the safe house and lie low for a few days whilst the dust settles.
They then travel to destinations other than the ones they left from on new identities and passports before finally travelling to their headquarters.
Our government want us to believe Vladimir Putin sent Sid James and Kenneth Williams.
Yeah. OK
Armed with their visas, they then booked and took a scheduled flight out of Moscow, arrived at Gatwick and then booked into a grotty hotel, sharing one room with one double bed.
They took 2 trips to Salisbury, seen in glorious full HD, went to the Skripal's house on a Sunday afternoon whilst people were out in their gardens, yet managed to get to the house unseen and coated the front door handle with the world's deadliest nerve agent and strolled back to the station, on to Gatwick and out of the country, landing back in Moscow.
A few points to note.
The GRU were disbanded 10 years ago but let's put that to one side for a moment.
Whilst these two individuals were in Salisbury, the Skripals turned off their phones and GPS tracking.
It's almost like they wanted to meet someone without anyone finding out.
I wonder who that was?
Any footage of the Skripals was grainy and distant. Unlike the "assassins".
This is the same Sergei Skripal who had been meeting with Mark Urban of the BBC for several months prior to the attack.
What were they discussing?
Why didn't the BBC disclose this? It only slipped out by accident and nothing else has been disclosed since.
The room they stayed in had traces of the world's most deadly nerve agent yet no other guests or staff were affected.
A bit like the Skripal's door handle.
Has anyone ever read a spy book? You know, one of those written by a former spy or someone with ties to the security services.
State sanctioned assassinations go something along these lines:
The assassins use passports from a country that isn't theirs, with a false identity to begin with.
They fly to the UK separately from different countries and are picked up by agents already in place.
They are driven in an unidentifiable vehicle to a safe house where they are briefed on their target's movements and a time and place is chosen for the deed.
They travel incognito to the chosen place, shoot the target twice in the chest and once in the head to make sure then make thier getaway.
They go back to the safe house and lie low for a few days whilst the dust settles.
They then travel to destinations other than the ones they left from on new identities and passports before finally travelling to their headquarters.
Our government want us to believe Vladimir Putin sent Sid James and Kenneth Williams.
Yeah. OK
Ghoat
Player Valuation: £500k
They changed their name/abbreviation to GU, but they most certainly weren't disbanded. Good points on everything else.
I would be a little surprised if it was carried out by the GRU/GU or that it was sanctioned from the desk of Putin. The GRU is Military intelligence and that's historically not their MO. That's been more the FSB FBO KGB or other alphabet agencies. Or in the Cold War, have the Bulgarians do it.
My hunch is yes, it was sanctioned at a high level in Russia, carried out by some Russian agency/on their behalf and Putin is likely aware at the very least, but is disconnected or insulated. And the Brits probably know the whos and hows.
But, I find it implausible that Russian intelligence would be that sloppy and overtly assassinate a citizen on the soil of a major world power. Nor do I think British intelligence would broadcast to the media a step by step explanation of sources and methods used to catch Russian spies.
Plausible deniability...Putin is a master at this.
Good call about the Bulgarians. Well noted in the 80’s for doing wet jobs on behalf of the soviets.
longers
Parcheggia l'autobus
Remember when that guy pitch invaded the World Cup final and some people joked he’d be dead soon...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45505064
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45505064
Zezti
Player Valuation: £70m
https://www.rt.com/news/438350-petrov-boshirov-interview-simonyan/
The two men reached out to RT Editor-in-Chief Margarita Simonyan, as they wanted to tell their story. The first thing she asked them was to confirm their names, and they said that they were indeed Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov, and that those were their real names.
She then asked them whether they worked for the GRU – Russian intelligence. They immediately denied it.
“You honestly look very tense,” Simonyan noted.
“And how would you look after all of that?” Petrov responded, before Boshirov said the British investigation “ruined their lives.”
“Well, we came there [to the UK] on March 2, then went to a railway station to see the timetable. We arrived in Salisbury on March 3 and tried to walk through the town, but we lasted for only half an hour because it was covered in snow,” Petrov said.
“Of course, we went there to see Stonehenge, Old Sarum, but we couldn’t do it because there was muddy slush everywhere. The town was covered by this slush. We got wet, took the nearest train and came back [to London].”
“We spent no more than an hour in Salisbury, mainly because of the lags between trains,” Boshirov said.“Maybe we did [approach] Skripal’s house, but we don’t know where is it located.”
“On March 4 we returned [to Salisbury] because everything had melted away in London, there was warm and sunny weather. We specifically went there [again] to see the Old Sarum and the cathedral and decided to finish this thing on March 4," said Petrov.
Simonyan clarified: “What thing?”
“To see the cathedral,” Petrov replied.
When Margarita Simonyan asked the two men whether they had Novichok or any poison with them, they emphatically said no. Then she asked whether they had the Nina Ricci perfume bottle that has been shown as evidence.
“Isn't it silly for decent lads to have women’s perfume? The customs are checking everything, they would have questions as to why men have women’s perfume in their luggage. We didn’t have it,” Boshirov said.
Both Petrov and Boshirov sounded distressed as they spoke about how their lives had changed since they were named in the UK as Russian intelligence agents, who attempted to poison the Skripals.
“When your life turned upside down, you don’t know what to do and where to go. We’re afraid of going out, we fear for ourselves, our lives and lives of our loved ones,” Boshirov said.
Asked whether they had recently been to any European state, the two said they were.
“Sure… in Switzerland we were for a couple of times… we spent New year in Switzerland.” The journey was part of their vacation, however the two have also been in Europe to do business that is related to sports nutrition.
“We examine the market, look if there is something new – some biologically active additives, amino acids, vitamins, microelements. We pick up the most necessary, come here and decide how to deliver the new products from this market here.”
Asked if they were indeed people on the screenshots released by the UK, the men said they indeed were.
“Yes. We have these clothes, this jacket is hanging in my wardrobe. The shoes are bought in England…This is the clothes were are currently wearing.”
“Are these clothes currently in Russia?” Simonyan asked.
“Yes, of course, we can show it.”
The RT editor-in-chief also touched upon the most puzzling picture of the two, the photo from the Gatwick airport.
“Here is the picture that puzzled the whole world, Gatwick airport, you are leaving through a gate literally in the same times, almost the same second. How did it happen?” she asked.
“We always go together through the same corridor and the same custom service officer or a policeman. One goes, the other waits. We went through the corridor together, we always [do it] together. How did it happen? It’s better to ask them [UK police],” Boshirov replied.
The two men reached out to RT Editor-in-Chief Margarita Simonyan, as they wanted to tell their story. The first thing she asked them was to confirm their names, and they said that they were indeed Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov, and that those were their real names.
She then asked them whether they worked for the GRU – Russian intelligence. They immediately denied it.
“You honestly look very tense,” Simonyan noted.
“And how would you look after all of that?” Petrov responded, before Boshirov said the British investigation “ruined their lives.”
“Well, we came there [to the UK] on March 2, then went to a railway station to see the timetable. We arrived in Salisbury on March 3 and tried to walk through the town, but we lasted for only half an hour because it was covered in snow,” Petrov said.
“Of course, we went there to see Stonehenge, Old Sarum, but we couldn’t do it because there was muddy slush everywhere. The town was covered by this slush. We got wet, took the nearest train and came back [to London].”
“We spent no more than an hour in Salisbury, mainly because of the lags between trains,” Boshirov said.“Maybe we did [approach] Skripal’s house, but we don’t know where is it located.”
“On March 4 we returned [to Salisbury] because everything had melted away in London, there was warm and sunny weather. We specifically went there [again] to see the Old Sarum and the cathedral and decided to finish this thing on March 4," said Petrov.
Simonyan clarified: “What thing?”
“To see the cathedral,” Petrov replied.
When Margarita Simonyan asked the two men whether they had Novichok or any poison with them, they emphatically said no. Then she asked whether they had the Nina Ricci perfume bottle that has been shown as evidence.
“Isn't it silly for decent lads to have women’s perfume? The customs are checking everything, they would have questions as to why men have women’s perfume in their luggage. We didn’t have it,” Boshirov said.
Both Petrov and Boshirov sounded distressed as they spoke about how their lives had changed since they were named in the UK as Russian intelligence agents, who attempted to poison the Skripals.
“When your life turned upside down, you don’t know what to do and where to go. We’re afraid of going out, we fear for ourselves, our lives and lives of our loved ones,” Boshirov said.
Asked whether they had recently been to any European state, the two said they were.
“Sure… in Switzerland we were for a couple of times… we spent New year in Switzerland.” The journey was part of their vacation, however the two have also been in Europe to do business that is related to sports nutrition.
“We examine the market, look if there is something new – some biologically active additives, amino acids, vitamins, microelements. We pick up the most necessary, come here and decide how to deliver the new products from this market here.”
Asked if they were indeed people on the screenshots released by the UK, the men said they indeed were.
“Yes. We have these clothes, this jacket is hanging in my wardrobe. The shoes are bought in England…This is the clothes were are currently wearing.”
“Are these clothes currently in Russia?” Simonyan asked.
“Yes, of course, we can show it.”
The RT editor-in-chief also touched upon the most puzzling picture of the two, the photo from the Gatwick airport.
“Here is the picture that puzzled the whole world, Gatwick airport, you are leaving through a gate literally in the same times, almost the same second. How did it happen?” she asked.
“We always go together through the same corridor and the same custom service officer or a policeman. One goes, the other waits. We went through the corridor together, we always [do it] together. How did it happen? It’s better to ask them [UK police],” Boshirov replied.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
That was hilarious, especially the bit about the snow.
No word of a lie, it's all a bit funny.
I accept someone has died and that’s far from funny but It’s tough not to smile at Putin’s obviously trolling .
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Don’t forget the slush. Russians have never seen proper British slush......
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