Current Affairs Critically ill man is former Russian spy

Status
Not open for further replies.
True but there hasn't been any information released on where exactly they where when poisoned,if they were approached by anybody?did they give descriptions of anyone?.Then we had the people from Porton Down fully suited,and when the UK couple were poisoned police officers just wearing rubber gloves doing a fingertip search of parkland.I'm not suggesting it wasn't a Putin inspired event,just that it all seems very sketchy.

Reports say the agent was placed on their front door handle.

I agree it’s sketchy but the reason for that is that most of the evidence has been drawn from intelligence sources and the UK govt won’t disclose details. So the media and general public go into a frenzy trying to make sense of it all. If they did release the intelligence information it would kill this debate off, however that’ll never happen so we are left with a weird mess of a story.
 
Reports say the agent was placed on their front door handle.

I agree it’s sketchy but the reason for that is that most of the evidence has been drawn from intelligence sources and the UK govt won’t disclose details. So the media and general public go into a frenzy trying to make sense of it all. If they did release the intelligence information it would kill this debate off, however that’ll never happen so we are left with a weird mess of a story.

Don’t worry we’ll find out the truth when Hullefc has been briefed by his handlers what to say.........
 
Reports say the agent was placed on their front door handle.

I agree it’s sketchy but the reason for that is that most of the evidence has been drawn from intelligence sources and the UK govt won’t disclose details. So the media and general public go into a frenzy trying to make sense of it all. If they did release the intelligence information it would kill this debate off, however that’ll never happen so we are left with a weird mess of a story.
I read that was the method of delivery,them spraying it from a perfume bottle and strolling off doesn't quite make sense,now from left field, the enough to kill thousands story coming from Govt sources...still keeps the media ticking over and off Brexit.
 
I have little doubt that those that did this were agents of the Russian state, but I'm also concerned that our government are unwilling to co-operate with well established international bodies in confirming the agents used.
/

The difference of sounding tough but not be actually being tough, after all those Ruble's is as good as anyone elses monies. The next line of excuse is why effect the good liberal Ruble, of course that's how you go about affective real change in rougue states, by effective mobilization of the general population. By literally cut it off financially. But that's not in UKPLC (financial sector) interest. We are weak they know it and we all know it really, it's right old carry on.
 
We don’t do bullying, if you have several hours to spare just read the thread......

@hullefc is skeptical about British intelligence, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do given the dubious intelligence given to support an invasion of Iraq.

I don't necessarily agree with him, but it's unfair to proclaim that he's somehow anti-British/pro-Russian on the basis of using his god given right to share his personal doubts on the issue.
 
If you are referring to the identical timestamps and rubbing yourself off thinking "how can that be" - "they must be false images" then take a look at this image of international arrivals at Gatwick as it might just piss on your parade.

They obviously walked together to arrivals and then split through seperate gates - cameras then clocked them at the same time. It's not rocket science Segei.

gatwickgates-s.jpg


As for all the other stuff I will summarise as follows:-

1. GRU goons 1 and 2 smuggled in the nerve agent to the UK in a perfume bottle - probably stored in their hold luggage
This is scary as hell...and shows a wanton disregard for human life as everyone on that plane was at risk.

2. They went to their hotel room and prepared the delivery mechanism on the bottle
They were obviously trained and experienced handling this stuff as only small traces of the agent were discovered in their hotel room

3. They scouted out Salisbury and the Skripals house on the Saturday
caught again on many CCTV systems

4. They applied the nerve agent to the skripals doorhandle on Sunday morning whilst Sergei and his Daughter were visiting his wifes grave
caught again on cctv near to the Skripals house

5. They then dumped the perfume bottle containg the nerve agent and did a sharp exit back to the motherland.
and we know what happened next to that poor woman

So this intel along with a lot of undisclosed intelligence gives the Police and CPS enough evidence to bring charges against these goons. I doubt theyll ever stand trial and they will no doubt take a dive off a building in Moscow or get smacked in a hit and run to cover up any loose ends.

Putin's standard response - in the words of Shaggy

It wasn't me!

So the GRU (gasps of horror from the assembled ladies and gentlemen in parliament) did 'it' -whatever that is, said to be pure novichok the most deadliest thing known to humans- and Putin, 'ordered 'it'/knew about 'it'/is responsible for it, because the GRU (more gasps of horror) is the Russian state security service and the head of that state is responsible for the actions of their security service. And if it was the GRU (even more gasps of horror) it certainly wasn't a 'rogue' element.

Regarding the picture published by the MET - highly unlikely, not impossible, that two people would walk through different gates at the very exact time. They should have produced a photo showing them exiting at the same time from the CCTV camera that your picture shows. But didn't. That would have been the camera they would have been trawling through to see when and whom came into Gatwick. They must have done the same for all UK airports that have flights from Russia.

Regarding your point 1 -

1. GRU goons 1 and 2 smuggled in the nerve agent to the UK in a perfume bottle - probably stored in their hold luggage
This is scary as hell...and shows a wanton disregard for human life as everyone on that plane was at risk.

No evidence they are GRU (....) except from May. The MET didn't say it. To claim the narrative/jackanory that Putin did it the GRU had to be 'involved' so as to show Putin 'knew about it'.

Regarding the 'stored in the hold' and it being 'scary' and a 'wanton disregard for human life'. They would have been at risk if it was hand luggage. In the photo neither seems to have a suitcase but shoulder holdalls. But Petrov has a suitcase when leaving. Where did he get it from and when?

I've never flown from Gatwick but it appears a very very efficient airport and well stocked with customs officers.

The plane they claim that the two arrived on, landed at 15.58 and they were shown leaving the airport - the two photos - at 16.22.43 secs. That is 24 minutes and 43 secs to get off the plane, get through customs as non UK, non EU citizens, reclaim their luggage and leave. I think it takes me longer to get off the plane at Belfast when it has landed, and leave the airport with hand luggage. Must be super efficient and diligent at Gatwick.

But these guys were GRU (...) on fake passports and they got through the efficient and but it appears not so diligent Gatwick customs. No wonder the Tories are trying to get through the Counter Terrorism and Border Security Bill as it seems any person can get into the country willy nilly.

Point 2.
They went to their hotel room and prepared the delivery mechanism on the bottle
They were obviously trained and experienced handling this stuff as only small traces of the agent were discovered in their hotel room

'Prepared the delivery mechanism'. Really. Without any special space suits given they knew how dangerous 'it' was. Remember this is the more deadliest chemical weapon known to humans - 10 times more deadly than the VX that killed the North Korean leaders brother in 20 minutes. And they 'prepared the delivery mechanism' used it, took it apart in Salisbury, repacked it and sealed the box without protection and dumped it. On March 4th but Rowley didn't find it until July. Really.
This most deadly chemical weapon left a 'trace' in a hotel room from 4th March until May, when the police found out where they were staying and no one got contaminated. But the police officer did when he 'responded' - that story keeps changing to fit a narrative/jackanory - but another person who responded and was cleaning saliva from Yulia's face with a tissue never got contaminated. But there again the police officer was supposed to have been in the house with the Skripals. Another narrative. I've read - I know you shouldn't believe everything that is it the papers/on TV/on the internet - but they have buried the ambulance and the helicopter in a deep landfill site because they are too contaminated. They are at the moment 'decontaminating' the Skriapls house where the only place 'it' was found was on the door handle. But they haven't shut down the hotel where trace where found of 'pure novichok' and decontaminated it. Unbelievable.

Point 3 -
They scouted out Salisbury and the Skripals house on the Saturday
caught again on many CCTV systems

The police haven't a clue what they were doing and have asked for information. All that is shown is them at Salisbury station at 16.11. There is no CCTV footage of their movements around Salisbury. 'Scouted' really.

Point 4 -
They applied the nerve agent to the skripals doorhandle on Sunday morning whilst Sergei and his Daughter were visiting his wifes grave
caught again on cctv near to the Skripals house

It has been stated that they left the house around 9.00 am and their movements weren't known because their GPS tracker was turned off. Sergie Skripals car was picked up on CCTV - hard to see how it was not picked up before - at 1.30 on its way to Sainsbury's car park they reckon it was parked at 1.40.pm. Sainsbury's car park is on

The picture they showed was of the two men on a road by the Skripal's house at 11.58.48 am. on a road about 5ish minutes away from the Skripal's. So between 12.05 and 13.15 pm, when they would have left the house to get into Salisbury town centre these two in broad daylight have sneaked up to the house and sprayed 'it' on the door handle without anyone seeing them. And the Skripla's not hearing them, if they were indeed in. Highly unlikely. No witnesses, nothing.

Skripals - The Mystery Deepens

"This BBC report gives a very useful timeline summary of events.

At 09.15 on Sunday 4 March the Skripals’ car was seen on CCTV driving through three different locations in Salisbury. Both Skripals had switched off their mobile phones and they remained off for over four hours, which has baffled geo-location.

There is no CCTV footage that indicates the Skripals returning to their home. It has therefore always been assumed that they last touched the door handle around 9am.

But the Metropolitan Police state that Boshirov and Petrov did not arrive in Salisbury until 11.48 on the day of the poisoning. That means that they could not have applied a nerve agent to the Skripals’ doorknob before noon at the earliest. But there has never been any indication that the Skripals returned to their home after noon on Sunday 4 March. If they did so, they and/or their car somehow avoided all CCTV cameras. Remember they were caught by three CCTV cameras on leaving, and Borishov and Petrov were caught frequently on CCTV on arriving.

The Skripals were next seen on CCTV at 13.30, driving down Devizes road. After that their movements were clearly witnessed or recorded until their admission to hospital.

So even if the Skripals made an “invisible” trip home before being seen on Devizes Road, that means the very latest they could have touched the doorknob is 13.15. The longest possible gap between the novichok being placed on the doorknob and the Skripals touching it would have been one hour and 15 minutes. Do you recall all those “experts” leaping in to tell us that the “ten times deadlier than VX” nerve agent was not fatal because it had degraded overnight on the doorknob? Well that cannot be true. The time between application and contact was between a minute and (at most) just over an hour on this new timeline.

In general it is worth observing that the Skripals, and poor Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley, all managed to achieve almost complete CCTV invisibility in their widespread movements around Salisbury at the key times, while in contrast “Petrov and Boshirov” managed to be frequently caught in high quality all the time during their brief visit.

This is especially remarkable in the case of the Skripals’ location around noon on 4 March. The government can only maintain that they returned home at this time, as they insist they got the nerve agent from the doorknob. But why was their car so frequently caught on CCTV leaving, but not at all returning? It appears very much more probable that they came into contact with the nerve agent somewhere else, while they were out".

That's if it was in fact novichok that is being sexed up by 'most deadliest' subtatnce known and the GRU(...) used it.

Point 5 -
They then dumped the perfume bottle containg the nerve agent and did a sharp exit back to the motherland.
and we know what happened next to that poor woman

'Dumped the perfume bottle' on 4th March and it was not found until July in a charity bin. Didn't they empty the bin for 4 months? And the box was sealed and Rowley had to put it together because the two GRU (more grasps of horror) men had taken it apart and put it back in the box and sealed it up. Highly, highly unlikely.

May's narrative is.
On 4th March 2018 there was an attempted murder by the GRU and as head of state and therefore in charge of the sate security forces, Putin is responsible. It could not have been a rogue element.

"The prime minister hinted at approval by the Kremlin, saying “The GRU [the intelligence service] is a highly disciplined organisation with a well-established chain of command.

“So this was not a rogue operation. It was almost certainly also approved outside the GRU at a senior level of the Russian state.”

However, asked if she “means president Putin” was responsible, Ms May declined to name him, replying: “I mean a decision, outside the GRU, at a senior level of the Russian state.”

Let's apply May's narrative to the case of Pat Finucane. On 12th February 1898 Pat Finucane, was killed when 'shot fourteen times as he sat eating a meal at his Belfast home with his three children and his wife, who was also wounded during the attack'. Who was responsible for the murder of Pat Finucane?
 
Patrick Finucane (21 March 1949 – 12 February 1989),[1][2] commonly known as Pat Finucane, was an Irish human rights lawyerkilled[3] by loyalist paramilitaries acting in collusion with the British government intelligence service MI5.[4] In 2011 British Prime Minister David Cameron met with Pat Finucane's family and admitted the collusion, although no member of the British security services has yet been prosecuted.[5]

The UK government says other states have to be judged by the high standards they set. Why has no one been charged and prosecuted?

What happened on that day in March and why may never be known for years. But what can be ruled out is 'Putin did it'. Despite the rambling May's, 'erm, er, erm, er it's not up to me to say why'. Maybe the Chinese let the cat out of the bag over an incident in the South China Sea. 'Britain is merely falling into step with the US, whom it apparently sees as an “economic lifeline” as it prepares to exit the European Union, the editorial continues. “The United Kingdom is no doubt eager to seize whatever opportunity it can to get into Washington's good books".

Blaming Putin would suit those in the US attacking Trump over Russian. What the Skripal incident has done is allowed the May government to put a hard border on the island of Ireland, when the Counter Terrorism and Border Security Bill becomes law. The 'incident' has proved invaluable for the survival of May's government.
 
@hullefc is skeptical about British intelligence, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do given the dubious intelligence given to support an invasion of Iraq.

I don't necessarily agree with him, but it's unfair to proclaim that he's somehow anti-British/pro-Russian on the basis of using his god given right to share his personal doubts on the issue.

Mate, it's a long standing thing that when people say things particularly against the British state, in particular when they've acted appallingly like in Kenya, or Bloody Sunday or Ballymurphy - at long last maybe the truth is coming out - Channel 4 documentary last night - and other colonial atrocities/incidents or even against their own people, poverty/DWP sanctions, there are those that don't like it and will attempt to discredit that person by whatever means. The 'anti British' line is always peddled by 'little Englanders, 'my state does no wrong' in an attempt to stop debate. Because that is what is generally happening, they don't like what is said so they want it stopped. A bit like the 'anti semitic Corbyn' shrills or 'rife' in the Labour party. It is designed to close down criticism about those occupying Palestine.

It's nothing new. You mentioned about 'bullying' on another post. I was a trade union official long enough to have witnessed enough dirty tricks when dealing with management and never felt intimidated by bullying managers/foremen.

I'm skeptical because the narrative just doesn't add up and I'm concerned about the motive for using this 'incident' to, impose a hard border on the island of Ireland through the Counter Terrorism and Border Security Bill, the upping of the warmongers rhetoric against Russia - the UK wouldn't have the balls to stand up to Russia alone, rather hide behind, and add ammunition to the bully USA.;)
 
Mate, it's a long standing thing that when people say things particularly against the British state, in particular when they've acted appallingly like in Kenya, or Bloody Sunday or Ballymurphy - at long last maybe the truth is coming out - Channel 4 documentary last night - and other colonial atrocities/incidents or even against their own people, poverty/DWP sanctions, there are those that don't like it and will attempt to discredit that person by whatever means. The 'anti British' line is always peddled by 'little Englanders, 'my state does no wrong' in an attempt to stop debate. Because that is what is generally happening, they don't like what is said so they want it stopped. A bit like the 'anti semitic Corbyn' shrills or 'rife' in the Labour party. It is designed to close down criticism about those occupying Palestine.

It's nothing new. You mentioned about 'bullying' on another post. I was a trade union official long enough to have witnessed enough dirty tricks when dealing with management and never felt intimidated by bullying managers/foremen.

I'm skeptical because the narrative just doesn't add up and I'm concerned about the motive for using this 'incident' to, impose a hard border on the island of Ireland through the Counter Terrorism and Border Security Bill, the upping of the warmongers rhetoric against Russia - the UK wouldn't have the balls to stand up to Russia alone, rather hide behind, and add ammunition to the bully USA.;)

I believe that the attack was orchestrated by the Russian state, but I also understand the reasons as to why so many people are skeptical of British intelligence. I really don't like this "well, if he wants to hold the British government to account - then he's a anti-Western/pro-Russian stooge" attitude that seems to be growing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top