So does the money fix the environment?
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- Thread starter peteblue
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£12.50 a day to use your vehicle if it's of a certain age where it's highly polluting. I drive a modern, 2.0L diesel, and I wouldn't have to pay the charge.
If the car isn't a Euro 6 standard, you're going to pay. Pretty much every car sold in Europe since 2015 (a few exemptions) have had this standard.
Manufacturers like Audi, BMW, Citroën, Peugeot, Volvo, VW and Vaxuhall have made sure their diesel engines met the standard since 2012 or 2013.
Petrol is a bit of a difference, but it's not as if every car is going to automatically be charged; in fact, I'd suspect more cars will be exempt that not.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
And when they introduce Euro 7 standard yours will fall below the line again…..
Of course they will, and I get that. But, its implementation isn't going to happen overnight - the standard has only recently been proposed.
It'll be unlikely that the ULEZ will automatically flip over to prohibit E6 engines, so when it does I suspect my car will be well over ten years of age.
Will I own it? By then, the electric car revolution will have well and truly kicked in, so it may be that it will be less of an issue than you're suggesting it will be.
Anyway, that's my personal answer; the environment is a priority, so I ain't going to be too sympathetic for cars that are overly polluting and contributing to it.
If you want to have that type of car, you can - it'll just cost you a premium.
This being monitored by reg plate? I'm askin because if I nick someones new reg and glue it on my coal powered steam engine car will I be ok at least initially?
Yes, it's ANPR. London has about 1,600 of them (and growing) to monitor ULEZ alongside giving intel to the cops.
roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
What if you are unable to upgrade a car?
See, what I cant square is this. I use my car once a week to pick my son up from a city farm. From Monday I will just use a different route to avoid the Clean Air Zone £9.50. So my filthy deposits will be made in a part of town that has clean air as it is.
But hundreds of slightly cleaner cars will still whizz about the city centre, all day. I assume they do effect the air quality, just not enough to have to pay.
I am not against it btw, its just seems to shift the potential pollution to a different area.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Of course not. It raises money for TfL etc etc, forces people to give up usable vehicles too soon in order to buy newer vehicles thereby using more energy and putting even more pollutants into the atmosphere. The old cars and their tyres then have to be gotten rid of adding to the problems. Meanwhile those that actually do things for the environment but happen to live in the countryside get no buses or other forms of transport but then get vilified for keeping their older vehicles going. This is all about city folk wearing green hearts on their sleeves and raking in the money. If the money raised from people going to Heathrow was shared with the areas where people travel from to use it then fair enough, but of course it doesn’t does it. It’s just another form of tax. When every vehicle is electric, will these ULEZ taxes be removed, of course not they will be rebadged to help dispose of batteries…..
Of course it will, but not alone.
There will be a shift by many others to either dispose of their car for a compliant vehicle or using it less (no charge each day) with a move to public transport.
It'll be a pain financially or simply logistically, but I think the cause merits the change. Pollution is proven to be a huge factor on health and life expectancy.
It's not perfect, however by moving x-number of cars off the city's roads there will be a cumulative impact on the population of millions. That saves NHS money.
Baines' left foot
Player Valuation: £90m
Superb idea, until that pushes the price of everything up further.
Does the £385k gained a day get reinvested in services / the environment? Where does it all go? That figure will rise exponentially once the expansion occurs as the current ULEZ zone is tiny in comparison.
Commercial / work vehicle owners are the biggest losers here. I had to buy a van this year and after a lot of window shopping I realised it was about £10k for a Euro 6 van that had 150k+ miles on it. Not a great investment. For something with reasonable mileage you’re looking £13k+. That’s not a small amount of money for many people, not least small independent businesses. Petrol vans don’t really exists and electric vans are stupidly expensive and / or have terrible range when loaded.
Used van prices pretty much doubled as a result of the pandemic and more businesses moving to delivery service etc. This will likely push prices up further. Also, there’s been absolutely no information provided on when euro 6 vehicles will be outlawed. It could be within 2 years for all we know.
I suppose the costs will just be passed on to consumers. I can’t possibly foresee any issues with that.
I’m not against ULEZ. The opposite, in fact. I just feel that this announcement is incredibly poor timing and adds to people’s problems. It could have been postponed it for 12 months. It wasn’t all that long ago that the government were encouraging people to buy diesel vehicles.
roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
But its moving me to pollute a cleaner part of Bristol. Where more people actually live.
This is partly why I think London have extended the ULEZ to stop people doing this; eventually, I think Bristol will do the same.
As I said, it isn't perfect and there'll be people who, like yourself, divert their journey to miss it. But a fairly okay percentage will probably move to a new car.
Over time, this adds up - small, marginal gains etc. It will also help distribute the leftover emissions from a relatively small area, which will be densely populated.
It definitely is poorly timed. A survey even said that 80%+ people were opposed to it, but Khan for whatever reason is hell-bent on pushing it through.
Part of it, I suspect, is for what I mentioned above - the second phase of trying to reduce it, as the first phase alone doesn't do enough.
roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
Maybe. But if Bristol did, then I would stop picking the lad up, and revert to his support workers picking him up/a cab, which they did for ages till recently. Which would mean a slightly less polluting car being in town, when my filth wagon would not have been.
I spoke to the council about it, and the issue is that the clean air targets come from HMG. And only in the centre did Bristol fail. But Bristol is a load of hills, with the centre at sea level, pretty much. So all the heavy polluted air from many suburbs drift down to it. My mess fom Monday will still find its way to the centre most days.
Charlie Sweet
Player Valuation: £35m
Ultimately yes. Tfl promote sustainable transport.
In other news.....the second you're on the same side of an argument as @peteblue it's time to give your head a wobble!
Depends what is implemented.
See, these clean air zones focus on emissions. But not necessarily the most up to date version. So ulez currently asks that petrol cars meet euro 4 standards and diesels euro 6.
As I understand the Euro 7 a lot of the emissions they target are non-engine related, such as from brakes:
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2022-003315_EN.html
Plus, as we are no longer in the EU it may not be applied anyway, or bits will be ignored. Which we appeared to do when in the EU re: clean air.
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