Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[JimmyJeffers]

for me with the excess deaths and increasing incidents of fans collapsing at matches etc.

This is untrue.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

I understand where you are coming from but don't agree with all you are saying. Hard data that is well-interpreted is largely the only way we can determine things like efficacy of vaccines, their side-effects, and other issues. In the case of vaccines, they have been needlessly and a priori politicized by anti-vax groups; these people are not interested in debate, data, or analysis--they simply have a bias against vaccines and do all in their power to spread misinformation against them.

Apart from the anti-vax folks, there is robust responsible studies and there are shoddy/preliminary studies. This is where some need for scientific understanding and scientific expertise comes into play. More simply, if I understand what you are saying, I don't think any responsible and conscientious scientist has been politically ostracized for publishing studies that run against a given political grain (e.g., publishing a study that shows that Covid vaccines cause lots of excess deaths); instead, the scientists who publish these things are largely ostracized by the scientific community because their study has been shown to be careless/poorly executed/poorly interpreted or the scientist themself is pursuing their own political agenda (e.g., anti-vax sympathizer, seeking self-aggrandizement, or purposely publishing in pay-to-play journals that don't have peer review). These shoddy researchers, of course, then claim they are being politically silenced when they are actually being scientifically silenced. As another example, race science is massively politicized, in that people get very uncomfortable with the idea that some ethnic groups/races might differ genetically, cognitively, or personality-wise. However, the politicization occurs here because the science behind these studies is very shoddy and not robust. And thus when a journal rejects yet another manuscript by a shoddy "race realist" they are doing so because it's a shitty manuscript not because it's politically taboo. But of course the race scientist can then claim "politics are at play" and "I'm being silenced by the PC crowd" etc., etc., when in fact they are being silenced because they produce low-quality, poorly executed research. [And more often than not, these people often have been found to make curiously racist-adjacent statements on social media and elsewhere, thereby giving circumstantial evidence that they, not the scientific community at large, is pursuing a political agenda.]

In the case of Paige Harden, who studies the role that genetics plays in determining life outcomes (and she is a progressive/liberal), she did receive tons of push-back on twitter from liberals/progressives who don't like her nodding toward genetic determinism (even though she emphasizes luck over determinism). Much of it was mean-spirited, unscientific, and mostly name-calling--a case of the left-eating-the-left. That said, many scientists have critiqued her analyses on more scientific grounds and shown it to be lacking. More generally, politics hasn't necessarily limited her research (she has many admirers, including me) and she continues to publish responsible studies. It's more that her research has alternative interpretations (that hinges on mostly technical stuff like polygenic risk scores suffering from severe collider bias, and that the Genome-wide association studies that she relies on, have too many hidden population stratifications to be robust) and thus doesn't necessary qualify as first-rate, in the sense that there are still a few unknowns.

Well said.

I took particular umbrage with the claim funding would be denied politically in the UK. The UK has a diverse and complex health and medical funding field. The UK Government funding bodies are independent and deploy robust and transparent assessment processes.

For instance: https://www.ukri.org/about-us/how-we-are-governed/our-relationship-with-the-government/

Our place in the UK research landscape | NIHR

The NIHR’s place among other public research bodies and how it fits into the health and care research landscape in the UK.

www.nihr.ac.uk

Not to mention the array of indeoendent trusts and charities that fund research (see Wellcome, British Heart Foundation).

If someone isn't getting funded its usually because its a poorly written / justified bid or badly designed research.

Indeed, I've lost track of the amount of academics who claim there's an agenda against them or that they're "too radical" to be funded. They're really not and there's usually someone researching in their field with a grant. Simply, your idea and study design was crap.

Harsh, but fair ?

 

[verreauxi]

This is untrue.

The fans collapsing at matches has not gone up, but the fact that now matches are stopped and team doctors are called into the stands (as of like 2020) gives the impression that this is a new and covid-related thing. But it's not.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

The fans collapsing at matches has not gone up, but the fact that now matches are stopped and team doctors are called into the stands (as of like 2020) gives the impression that this is a new and covid-related thing. But it's not.

Yeah of course it’s not. Will still see people like him slyly drop this all the time whilst claiming more research needs done etc. The ‘just curious’ team.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

The fans collapsing at matches has not gone up, but the fact that now matches are stopped and team doctors are called into the stands (as of like 2020) gives the impression that this is a new and covid-related thing. But it's not.

This is true but the incidents have risen.

Even when play wasnt halted you knew/heard of an incident happening in the crowd.

 

[Nymzee]

This is true but the incidents have risen.

Even when play wasnt halted you knew/heard of an incident happening in the crowd.

Prove it.

 

[verreauxi]

This is true but the incidents have risen.

Even when play wasnt halted you knew/heard of an incident happening in the crowd.

No there hasn't. There is no pattern to these data pre- versus on-going Covid. None.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

No there hasn't. There is no pattern to these data pre- versus on-going Covid. None.

View attachment 197343

Thats all eligible injuries mate i.e you could get decked by an opposition fan coming oot the ground and be included in those figures.

Even if I accepted your figures as true, it still doesn't alter the facts of unexplained excess deaths and people dying of numerous vaccine induced heart conditions in which for many cases reported having been linked to inoculation.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

Thats all eligible injuries mate i.e you could get decked by an opposition fan coming oot the ground and be included in those figures.

Even if I accepted your figures as true, it still doesn't alter the facts of unexplained excess deaths and people dying of numerous vaccine induced heart conditions in which for many cases reported having been linked to inoculation.

For someone who does their own research, you're really bad at citing evidence in support of your arguments.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Thats all eligible injuries mate i.e you could get decked by an opposition fan coming oot the ground and be included in those figures.

Even if I accepted your figures as true, it still doesn't alter the facts of unexplained excess deaths and people dying of numerous vaccine induced heart conditions in which for many cases reported having been linked to inoculation.

There are thousands more UK deaths than usual and we don’t know why

Since April, there have been 22,500 more deaths than expected in the UK. Health experts are concerned but unsure of the causes – which could include covid-19, population ageing and NHS problems

www.newscientist.com

What’s behind the mystery of thousands of excess deaths this summer? | Devi Sridhar

The real reason is as mundane, and tragic, as an underfunded NHS still struggling with the terrible effects of Covid, says Edinburgh University’s Devi Sridhar

www.theguardian.com

Rising non-Covid excess deaths reveal the disastrous legacy of the pandemic

Experts believe higher deaths from heart complaints and diabetes mean the indirect effects of the pandemic will be greater than Covid itself

www.telegraph.co.uk

Variety of possible reasons mooted. Research and analysis ongoing.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

What branch of spirituality endorses telling whoppers on internet forums?

 

[verreauxi]

Thats all eligible injuries mate i.e you could get decked by an opposition fan coming oot the ground and be included in those figures.

Even if I accepted your figures as true, it still doesn't alter the facts of unexplained excess deaths and people dying of numerous vaccine induced heart conditions in which for many cases reported having been linked to inoculation.

I would suspect that the background rates of "fan assault" wouldn't change much year to year. In that case, one can't say there were more/less fan assaults in a given year, therefore one can't claim that pre-covid there were more things like fan assaults while now there are more cardiac arrests.

As to your second point, a major predictor of cardiac arrest is Covid infection, not Covid vaccines. And as some cases of Covid can be mild, people might not know they have it and thus continue on with a lifestyle that could put them at risk of cardiac arrest (e.g., they continue to exercise not knowing they have mild Covid). Another issue, of course, is that during the pandemic people resorted to bad habits (drinking more, smoking more, not getting enough exercise) and all of these things are risk factors for cardiac arrest (and particularly so if they already had covid).

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

I would suspect that the background rates of "fan assault" wouldn't change much year to year. In that case, one can't say there were more/less fan assaults in a given year, therefore one can't claim that pre-covid there were more things like fan assaults while now there are more cardiac arrests.

As to your second point, a major predictor of cardiac arrest is Covid infection, not Covid vaccines. And as some cases of Covid can be mild, people might not know they have it and thus continue on with a lifestyle that could put them at risk of cardiac arrest (e.g., they continue to exercise not knowing they have mild Covid). Another issue, of course, is that during the pandemic people resorted to bad habits (drinking more, smoking more, not getting enough exercise) and all of these things are risk factors for cardiac arrest (and particularly so if they already had covid).

Apparently there were spikes in death rates during the periods of extreme heat in the UK over the summer too.

It'll be complex and multiple causes I'd suggest. Maybe the vaccine did contribute. Maybe it didn't.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

I would suspect that the background rates of "fan assault" wouldn't change much year to year. In that case, one can't say there were more/less fan assaults in a given year, therefore one can't claim that pre-covid there were more things like fan assaults while now there are more cardiac arrests.

As to your second point, a major predictor of cardiac arrest is Covid infection, not Covid vaccines. And as some cases of Covid can be mild, people might not know they have it and thus continue on with a lifestyle that could put them at risk of cardiac arrest (e.g., they continue to exercise not knowing they have mild Covid). Another issue, of course, is that during the pandemic people resorted to bad habits (drinking more, smoking more, not getting enough exercise) and all of these things are risk factors for cardiac arrest (and particularly so if they already had covid).

I agree Covid is in general more dangerous than the vaccines it would be ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

However that still doesn't discount the vaccine has killed people and has knocked years off others lives. My point in which is the medical community need to be more vigilant as more evidence comes to light which it is doing all the time.

Lets not forget the preliminary trials of the vaccines never picked up the blood clotting of the AZ vaccines neither did it pick up the myocarditis/pericarditis/vasculitis from the MRNA jabs either.

We're learning more about COVID/the vaccines all the time.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

I agree Covid is in general more dangerous than the vaccines it would be ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

However that still doesn't discount the vaccine has killed people and has knocked years off others lives. My point in which is the medical community need to be more vigilant as more evidence comes to light which it is doing all the time.

Where is this coming to light, please?