Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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As nearly everyone of note is saying, it’s too early to infer anything from the data (at least with any confidence) and we are still very much in the ‘wait and see phase’.

Trying to argue one way or another is a bit futile until we can establish whether there are mitigating factors or bias in the data so far.

Until we have a clearer picture, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to err on the side of caution (though again, that’s due to the unknown rather than implying the new variant is more dangerous etc).

Taking an absolute position on this is a bit silly. No one is in the position to do that. Not even the experts.
 
So if they are both saying the same thing why did you use 1 to attempt to debunk the other? You clearly hadn't read the article I posted had you?
I simply said that more and more are claiming that the new variant is showing mainly mild cases and that if confirmed it would be a good idea to let it spread..
Or should we lock down a mild variant out of existence because a few more already extreamly sick people might die?

I said you hadn’t read it because what Wakita doesn’t say (though he’d probably agree as it’s simple maths) but Murdoch did is that if it is generally results in less serious cases but spreads more we could still see a wave of hospitalisations and deaths (as a lower % of a higher number can still be a lot of actual people).

Wanting it to spread at this point, at any point really, is stupid.
 
But its my choice, im not affecting everyone else. Well you f***ing are!!.

20-30% of critical care beds in England taken up by covid patients, with three quarters of them unvaccinated

 
I said you hadn’t read it because what Wakita doesn’t say (though he’d probably agree as it’s simple maths) but Murdoch did is that if it is generally results in less serious cases but spreads more we could still see a wave of hospitalisations and deaths (as a lower % of a higher number can still be a lot of actual people).

Wanting it to spread at this point, at any point really, is stupid.
So basically your opinion is this needs to be stopped forever because its never going away that's well established now this will be with us for ever.. this varient could potentially be the world's way out of this utter shitshow but you would rather indefinite restrictions to stop a potentially mild disease.. complete madness your idea will see hundreds of millions starve to death, F them right, clearly you don't care about starvation when there is a disease with a 99+% survival rate going around.. I'll tell you what you go and hide under your bed in your fantasy world where we need to run from Covid, spread the mild varient yes people will die but it potentially ends this mess
 
ADDRESS BY ROBERT F KENNEDY JR. | MILAN, ITALY NOVEMBER 13TH 2021

TRANSCRIPT

No government in the history of mankind has ever relinquished power voluntarily. The power that they have taken away from us over the past 20 months they will never give back. They have taken away our freedom of speech, they have closed the churches, they have taken away jury trials against companies, no matter how negligent they, no matter how reckless they are, no matter how grievous your injury, you cannot sue that company.

They have taken away our property rights in the United States. They closed a million businesses for a year with no just compensation and no due process. They have taken away our right to be free of warrantless searches and seizures and surveillance by the government. In the United States, all of those rights are enumerated in our Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution. And among the most important of those rights, after the right to free expression, which is gone, is the right to be able to participate in rule-making.

So, when the government wants to pass a law, it has to publish the law, propose the law, it has to explain the scientific basis for that law, it has to do a cost-benefit analysis of that law and explain it to the public, and then we have comments, that all the public can participate in, and then we have a hearing where people oppose the law, like myself, and bring in our own scientists and experts and scientific studies and it’s all transparent. All of those safeguards have been obliterated. Today, the law is what one man says it is, the top doctor in the United States, Anthony Fauci.

In one month, in March of 2020, Tony Fauci told the world masks don’t work, they’re scientifically worthless, two months later he ordered every American to put on a mask. He didn’t give us any scientific studies that made him change his mind, he simply told us, that’s the new law, do what you’re told.

All of these rights that the Founders of our country died for, sacrificed their properties, their livelihoods, to give us the Bill of Rights, and all of these rights over 20 months have been obliterated, taken from the American people — but not just the American people. This is a global coup d’état against liberal democracies across the planet.

And all of these rights that were taken away from us, these governments said it was only temporary. They said it would only be two weeks. In truth, you can all see what is happening: They will never give them back unless we make them.

And the Green Pass is their coup d’état. The Green Pass is how they consolidate their power over your lives. The Green Pass is not a public health measure. It is a tool for totalitarian control of your transportation, your bank account, your movement, every aspect of your life.

And this is not a new idea. This is the same idea they used in Germany in 1937. They issued a pass for people they wanted to control. And when the South African apartheid government wanted to control the black population of South Africa, what was the most important thing they did? They issued a green pass.

I want you to ask all of the people and journalists and press who are here today. If the Green Pass is about public health, why is it not issued by the health ministry? It’s being issued by the finance ministry. Do they think that we are stupid?

Because this is a way to control your money, Once you have that Green Pass and they have the digital currency, if somebody tells you, Do not leave Milan, and you go on a trip to Bologna, your money won’t work in Bologna. If the government tells you not to buy pizza, they can make it so that your money won’t buy pizza at a pizza store. They can control every aspect of your life.

They tell you that we need a Green Pass to make sure everybody gets vaccinated. But they admit it: the vaccine does not prevent transmission, the vaccine does not prevent you from getting the disease, the vaccine doesn’t stop the pandemic. So why do we need to get vaccinated if the vaccine doesn’t stop transmission?

I’m gonna tell you for two minutes — I’m going to talk about the vaccines. People say I’m against vaccines. I’m not against vaccines. I’m only against bad vaccines.

I’m not going to tell you what Robert Kennedy thinks. I’m going to tell you what Pfizer told the United States FDA.

Pfizer is the company that has an approved vaccine in the United States. And Pfizer was supposed to have a three-year study, but they cut it to 6 months. And then they gave vaccinations to all of the controls. Why did they do that? Why did they end the study in 6 months? Because they learned that the antibodies disappear in 6 months and the vaccine no longer provides protection. So they had to end it in 6 months. They could not do what they planned (3 years). They took all of their records for that 6 months and they gave them to FDA. The most important table is the table that tells you All-Cause Mortality. How many people died in the vaccine group, how many died in the placebo group during that 6-month period. That table is called “s4.” You can all look it up.

Here’s what the numbers say. There were 22,000 in the vaccine group. Over 6 months, one died from COVID. In the placebo group, the control group, there were 22,000 people, two died from COVID in 6 months. That allowed Pfizer to tell the American public that the vaccine is 100% effective because two is 100% of one.

Most Americans and most Italians when they hear that the vaccine is “100% effective”, what they think is that if they take the vaccine, I have 100% of not dying from COVID. That’s not what it means. What it means is they have to give 22,000 vaccines to protect one person from dying of COVID. That means they better make sure that the vaccine itself does not kill one person even, because if it kills one person then you cancel out the entire benefit.

Here’s the important thing. In the vaccine group, 20 people died over 6 months from all causes — 20 people of the 22,000. In the control group, only 14 people died of 22,000. That means that if you take the vaccine you are 48% more likely to die over the next 6 months than if you don’t.

These are Pfizer’s numbers, not mine. Here’s how the people died. In the control group, one person died of a heart attack over the 6 months. In the vaccine group, 5 people died of heart attacks over the 6 months. That means if you get the vaccine, you have a 500% risk of a fatal heart attack within 6 months. It also means that for every one person who is saved from dying of COVID, the vaccine is killing 4 people from heart attacks.

This is not a good public health policy. Public health is supposed to save lives. But this is about control and controlling our society and controlling our children. And the only reason that people don’t understand what I just said and that people still support the vaccine is one reason: the manipulation of fear.

This is simple mathematics. Anybody can look it up. If you look it up you will be more scared of that vaccine than you are of COVID. But the government and the pharmaceutical companies have a method for turning off people’s brains so that they can no longer do simple mathematics. That device is fear. Fear stops us from exercising critical thinking. It allows us to believe that if we just do what we’re told then that that is the only way to save our lives. It’s called the Stockholm Syndrome. And the captors, they lock down a whole country for a year, and people become grateful to their captors and think the only way we can leave here alive is if we have absolute obedience.

I’m going to make one more point and that’s this. How many people here have heard of Event 201?

If you haven’t heard of it, you should go look at it on Youtube. Event 201 was a simulation of a coronavirus pandemic that occurred in New York City in October 2019. We now know that COVID was circulating in Wuhan on September 12, 2019, so a month later, there is a simulated coronavirus pandemic in New York.

The people who came to that were the big social media companies, the media companies, Johnson & Johnson, the biggest vaccine company, and it was hosted by three people: 1) Bill Gates, 2) George Fu Gao who’s the head of the Chinese CDC, and 3) Avril Haines, the deputy director of the CIA.

Avril Haines is today the top number one spy in the United States, She is the head of Joe Biden’s National Security Agency, so she went from Event 201 to becoming the top spy in our country.

Who knew that the CIA is a public health agency? It came as a surprise to me.

Because the CIA does not do public health. The CIA does coup d’états. Between 1947 and the year 2000, the CIA was engaged in 73 coup d’états, most of them against democracies, one-third of the countries in the world. If you look at Event 201, there was no discussion of public health. Nobody was talking about how do we get Vitamin D to all the people? How do we get people to lose weight? How do we make sure they eat good food? How do we repurpose medicines to treat people? How do we quarantine the sick? How do we preserve Constitutional rights? Not a word was said about public health.

Instead, what they were talking about is how do we use the pandemic as a pretext to clamp down totalitarian controls and to deconstruct democracy. They spent one-quarter of the day talking about how to make sure nobody’s allowed to spread the rumour that the coronavirus pandemic is laboratory-generated.

This is October 2019! And they talk about how to lock down the population, how to force them to take experimental vaccines, how to make sure that black people don’t start resisting. Because in our country, blacks are very suspicious of the medical establishment, and they were deeply concerned about that resistance.

When I researched my book, what I learned was that this event, Event 201, was not a one-time occurrence. We found 20 separate pandemic simulations beginning in 2000. One thing they had in common — most of them Bill Gates was involved in, Tony Fauci was involved in — but every one of them the CIA was involved in. The CIA wrote the script, high-level CIA officials participated in every one of those pandemic simulations.

And they involved hundreds of thousands of people. They were conducted secretly. They used frontline workers, they were training police, and hospital systems and utilities in Europe, in Italy, in Germany, in Canada, in Australia, all at the same time, to do a response to a pandemic, but it was not a public health response. It was a response to use the pandemic for something else.

So they practised again and again and again: How to use the pandemic as a pretext for imposing totalitarian controls and for obliterating liberal democracy across the planet.

One of the experiments that they used, they found, is called the Milgram experiment — it was a CIA experiment in 1967 — and what the CIA found is that if a powerful medical official orders people to do something wrong, something that violates their conscience, that violates their basic values, 67% of people will obey authority over their values. And 67% of the people will be hypnotized by fear into obeying a position of authority, a figure of authority. But 33% of the people will not obey. And you are the 33%.

And our job is to go out from here today and reach out to our brothers and sisters, the people who are still hypnotized, and tell them that we are going to fight for their freedom until they are able to fight for it themselves. We need to reach out when we leave here today to all of our brothers and sisters, the 67% who are still hypnotized, and we have to tell them that you need to love your freedom more than you are scared of a germ.

This year we saw the destruction of the American Constitution. That Constitution was written by a group of people who understood that there are worse things than dying. And they put their lives on the front line, their property, their careers, their livelihoods, to fight for freedom, and to fight for those rights that we have lost in the previous 20 months.

And now it’s our job now, it is the job of everybody in this crowd, to go out and fight back, to resist, resist, resist, resist, and to reclaim our government, to reclaim our lives, to reclaim our liberty, for our children, for our country, and for all future generations.

And I can tell you this. I will stand side by side with you, and if I have to die for this, I’m going to die with my boots on.
 
So basically your opinion is this needs to be stopped forever because its never going away that's well established now this will be with us for ever.. this varient could potentially be the world's way out of this utter shitshow but you would rather indefinite restrictions to stop a potentially mild disease.. complete madness your idea will see hundreds of millions starve to death, F them right, clearly you don't care about starvation when there is a disease with a 99+% survival rate going around.. I'll tell you what you go and hide under your bed in your fantasy world where we need to run from Covid, spread the mild varient yes people will die but it potentially ends this mess

Utter nonsense - both in terms of what I want to do (which has been said on here often enough since April last year) being completely wrong (and formulated just so you can make this new starvation argument) but also your insistence that this virus might cure us of itself by infecting everyone, which is just ridiculous.

One of the worst things about this debate is how willing you (and others) are to just make stuff up and then cry whenever you are challenged over it. What you want to do really would lead to millions, potentially even hundreds of millions, of deaths if it was deliberately spread across the world. It is idiotic.
 
Utter nonsense - both in terms of what I want to do (which has been said on here often enough since April last year) being completely wrong (and formulated just so you can make this new starvation argument) but also your insistence that this virus might cure us of itself by infecting everyone, which is just ridiculous.

One of the worst things about this debate is how willing you (and others) are to just make stuff up and then cry whenever you are challenged over it. What you want to do really would lead to millions, potentially even hundreds of millions, of deaths if it was deliberately spread across the world. It is idiotic.
What makes this virus different?, Spanish flu still goes around, that killed 50 million just over 100 years ago it made itself less severe and now we aren't concerned about it,much like pretty much every respiratory virus in existence, but you think this one is somehow different and it won't mutate itself into something weaker.. source for what influences your line of thought please or are you just making things up?
 
What makes this virus different?, Spanish flu still goes around, that killed 50 million just over 100 years ago it made itself less severe and now we aren't concerned about it,much like pretty much every respiratory virus in existence, but you think this one is somehow different and it won't mutate itself into something weaker.. source for what influences your line of thought please or are you just making things up?

"Yes, flu only killed 50 million people on that occasion... and a few million in 1956... around another 700,000 in 1977... oh and it still kills between 290,000 and 650,000 a year now, why would anyone be concerned? Its not like millions of people have died of it or anything!"

well done on coming up with an even worse argument
 
"Yes, flu only killed 50 million people on that occasion... and a few million in 1956... around another 700,000 in 1977... oh and it still kills between 290,000 and 650,000 a year now, why would anyone be concerned? Its not like millions of people have died of it or anything!"

well done on coming up with an even worse argument
And as if to prove my point you point out to a virus that once killed 50 million but now over 200,000 a year it would seem that it's not as deadly I wonder what happened to it.. Yes flu kills hundreds of thousands of people a year and millions upon millions over history.. but we're you calling for movement restrictions pre covid? No, nobody was because it would have been a mental thing to do we even accepted that hospitals could and often were overun with flu patients, that's what living with a virus means there is a loss of life that society as a whole takes as acceptable and gets on with things.. still waiting for a source that gave you the notion that the virus won't mutate it's into something weaker.. I guess I'll be waiting.
 
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Yes flu kills hundreds of thousands of people a year and millions upon millions over history.. but we're you calling for movement restrictions pre covid? No, nobody was because it would have been a mental thing to do we even accepted that hospitals could and often were overun with flu patients, that's what living with a virus means there is a loss of life that society as a whole takes as acceptable and gets on with things.. still waiting for a source that gave you the notion that the virus won't mutate it's into something weaker.. I guess I'll be waiting.

You will be waiting because its a stupid point to make, and irrelevant as well given what other things you've said. Nor is it one that anyone has actually disagreed with.

I mean look at what you said about the 1917 flu - that directly resulted in an unknown figure of dead (but lets say 50 million as thats in the middle of the estimates as well as being what you said). Flu still kills hundreds of thousands dead per year, puts many more seriously ill in hospital and causes a lot of economic damage in terms of treatment costs, lost work-days and the rest. That is a century after the incident you identified - in that time there might have been more than 100 million dead just caused by this; it may even be more than the death toll from both world wars. Why is the "well it gets weaker over time!" relevant?

That is what you think it would be a good idea to inflict on the world, many of whom are still not vaccinated nor do they have the medical facilities we do to treat them when they get it. Its profoundly stupid, given there are alternatives that do much less damage than that - which, ironically, is something we have learned from flu (both with the pre-pandemic reductions in flu deaths seen here thanks to boosters, and the almost complete collapse of flu worldwide last year thanks to the pandemic measures taken).
 
What makes this virus different?, Spanish flu still goes around, that killed 50 million just over 100 years ago it made itself less severe and now we aren't concerned about it,much like pretty much every respiratory virus in existence, but you think this one is somehow different and it won't mutate itself into something weaker.. source for what influences your line of thought please or are you just making things up?
The world population at that point was 2bn. Extrapolating that 50m would be closer to 200m. That’s leaving aside population densities and how easily we get around nowadays relative to back then.

It didn’t make itself less severe. It just killed most of the people in range that it was likely to.
 
But its my choice, im not affecting everyone else. Well you f***ing are!!.

20-30% of critical care beds in England taken up by covid patients, with three quarters of them unvaccinated




Age of the individual where society and social responsibility means little.

And I'm Increasingly finding far right wing links to anti vaccines/mask wearing. Survival of the fittest innit!
 
The world population at that point was 2bn. Extrapolating that 50m would be closer to 200m. That’s leaving aside population densities and how easily we get around nowadays relative to back then.

It didn’t make itself less severe. It just killed most of the people in range that it was likely to.
It did make itself less severe, and we learned to live with it popping up every so often.
 
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You will be waiting because its a stupid point to make, and irrelevant as well given what other things you've said. Nor is it one that anyone has actually disagreed with.

I mean look at what you said about the 1917 flu - that directly resulted in an unknown figure of dead (but lets say 50 million as thats in the middle of the estimates as well as being what you said). Flu still kills hundreds of thousands dead per year, puts many more seriously ill in hospital and causes a lot of economic damage in terms of treatment costs, lost work-days and the rest. That is a century after the incident you identified - in that time there might have been more than 100 million dead just caused by this; it may even be more than the death toll from both world wars. Why is the "well it gets weaker over time!" relevant?

That is what you think it would be a good idea to inflict on the world, many of whom are still not vaccinated nor do they have the medical facilities we do to treat them when they get it. Its profoundly stupid, given there are alternatives that do much less damage than that - which, ironically, is something we have learned from flu (both with the pre-pandemic reductions in flu deaths seen here thanks to boosters, and the almost complete collapse of flu worldwide last year thanks to the pandemic measures taken).
The it gets weaker over time is relevant ya know mainly because it gets weaker over time, Spanish flu weakened after about 2 years and 3 waves into something that society could live with, we are about 2 years onto covid now and at first glance with the new variant it appears to have undergone a a weakening has it weakened into something we can deal with time will tell and as I've said if this is confirmed it's time to ditch some of the restrictions, and get back to normality why anyone wouldn't want this to happen is beyond me, both your idea and mine would kill probably millions.
 
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