Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Deleted member 48881]

I don't think this is helpful - I'm against a huge amount of the response to this, especially the vaccine passports, but anything that even remotely hints that this could be even slightly similar to past events undermines the whole thing and makes us all sound crazy

Well said. Caricaturing these decisions is not helpful and will never convince people who have doubts about mandates. Anyway the likes of FB92 are trolls thankfully and love winding people up. Nothing to take it seriously.

 

[grandjoeblue]

To just relying on vaccines? There absolutely are and we should be doing them.

Basically every country in the world is going down the vaccine route as their primary form of protection. Track and trace simply doesn't work in the long run for such a contagious disease unless you start on an extremely very low base and even then you need very tough measures (see NZ/Aus).

 

[Amw79]

I’ve been fairly vocal about my view on things. I think it’s a choice though I do think there are consequences to choice. So I don’t have a problem in limiting access to certain things if you aren’t vaccinated. As it doesn’t remove choice and people are able to decide on a risk reward basis whether they would like to be vaccinated or not. I have no issue with a private business refusing service to unvaccinated people for instance.

And I have no problem with mandating certain things like masks in high risk environments (like say the tube). You can choose an alternative mode of transport in that case.

But making vaccinations mandatory and introducing fines and other punishments for not being vaccinated is a different kettle of fish altogether. That removes autonomy entirely. Which I think is a huge problem.

This is about my view as well.

Although hypothetically, I can conceive of a virus that was so transmissible and so deadly, that mandatory vaccination was justifiable, but Covid isn’t it.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Basically every country in the world is going down the vaccine route as their primary form of protection. Track and trace simply doesn't work in the long run for such a contagious disease unless you start on an extremely very low base and even then you need very tough measures (see NZ/Aus).

Track and trace relies on the public always coming forward with any hint of symptoms, and then requires total 100% adherence to self-isolating. It also needs everyone to remember all their contacts, and for these people to be contacted quickly.

The other question is should a contact (i.e. not someone who has tested positive) who is vaccinated and feels fine have to isolate - I would say no.

It's not realistic to think it will work well in this country.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

I don't think this is helpful - I'm against a huge amount of the response to this, especially the vaccine passports, but anything that even remotely hints that this could be even slightly similar to past events undermines the whole thing and makes us all sound crazy

Im double jabbed but I'll speak out when I see tyranny mate and excluding people from society or demanding they take whatever drug the government demands is something out of Nazi Germany and people need to unite against it otherwise where does it stop/lead to?

If they really want to boost vaccine uptake then make it worth peoples time - give them a free pint and a burger, extra days annual leave etc. Plenty of silly ways of encouraging uptake without acting like a tolitartian regime.

And if people dont want it then respect their decision and let them take the medication once its in circulation and/or mandatory testing before entry into places.

 

[tsubaki]

Basically every country in the world is going down the vaccine route as their primary form of protection. Track and trace simply doesn't work in the long run for such a contagious disease unless you start on an extremely very low base and even then you need very tough measures (see NZ/Aus).

No matter how many times you repeat this, it is not true. Test and trace works to keep the number of cases low; if you don't do that (as we haven't) then the number of cases can get to a level which is not manageable by any test and trace system, or even healthcare system.

What is happening in the world is that many countries (us included) have gone down entirely the wrong path, which has impacted on those countries who went down the right path (and have had far fewer cases, hospitalizations, deaths and suffered less economic damage) because the threat is never going to go away now thanks to the giant reservoirs of disease established here or in the US.

 

[ToffeeTim]

No matter how many times you repeat this, it is not true. Test and trace works to keep the number of cases low; if you don't do that (as we haven't) then the number of cases can get to a level which is not manageable by any test and trace system, or even healthcare system.

What is happening in the world is that many countries (us included) have gone down entirely the wrong path, which has impacted on those countries who went down the right path (and have had far fewer cases, hospitalizations, deaths and suffered less economic damage) because the threat is never going to go away now thanks to the giant reservoirs of disease established here or in the US.

Track and trace relies on the public always coming forward with any hint of symptoms, and then requires total 100% adherence to self-isolating. It also needs everyone to remember all their contacts, and for these people to be contacted quickly.

The other question is should a contact (i.e. not someone who has tested positive) who is vaccinated and feels fine have to isolate - I would say no.

It's not realistic to think it will work well in this country.

There is no evidence track and trace will be the answer in this country for the reasons I said in my other post. It can help in some scenarios but it's certainly nowhere near as effective as lots claim.

 

[tsubaki]

There is no evidence track and trace will be the answer in this country for the reasons I said in my other post. It will help but it's certainly nowhere near as effective as lots claim.

There is plenty of evidence, as the fact you added "in this country" as a qualifier to that sentence showed.

You just don't think the people of this country would buy it, which is a frankly absurd statement given how the people of this country acted during the first lockdown (when government advice was followed by the overwhelming majority of the population up until the government was caught not following its own advice). Had the government actually brought in a "world-beating" test and trace system people would have used it; had it worked at preventing outbreaks, saving lives and preventing lockdowns people would still be using it now.

 

[ToffeeTim]

There is plenty of evidence, as the fact you added "in this country" as a qualifier to that sentence showed.

You just don't think the people of this country would buy it, which is a frankly absurd statement given how the people of this country acted during the first lockdown (when government advice was followed by the overwhelming majority of the population up until the government was caught not following its own advice). Had the government actually brought in a "world-beating" test and trace system people would have used it; had it worked at preventing outbreaks, saving lives and preventing lockdowns people would still be using it now.

I don't think our system is that much different than other countries. I just don't think it is the answer here, and there are lots of reasons for that. If it was the answer, then it would have had a much bigger impact by now.

The money on track and trace would have been better spent elsewhere

 

[grandjoeblue]

No matter how many times you repeat this, it is not true. Test and trace works to keep the number of cases low; if you don't do that (as we haven't) then the number of cases can get to a level which is not manageable by any test and trace system, or even healthcare system.

What is happening in the world is that many countries (us included) have gone down entirely the wrong path, which has impacted on those countries who went down the right path (and have had far fewer cases, hospitalizations, deaths and suffered less economic damage) because the threat is never going to go away now thanks to the giant reservoirs of disease established here or in the US.

Your last point on UK/USA is ridiculous. COVID would be here for the next 50 year's even if both countries didn't exist.

 

[tsubaki]

I don't think our system is that much different than other countries. I just don't think it is the answer here, and there are lots of reasons for that. If it was the answer, then it would have had a much bigger impact by now.

The money on track and trace would have been better spent elsewhere

er - it is

 

[tsubaki]

Your last point on UK/USA is ridiculous. COVID would be here for the next 50 year's even if both countries didn't exist.

Would it, though? How many people caught MERS or SARS last year?

 

[grandjoeblue]

Would it, though? How many people caught MERS or SARS last year?

Have mainland Europe, South America and Africa managed zero covid? I must be reading the wrong statistics.

 

[tsubaki]

Have mainland Europe, South America and Africa managed zero covid? I must be reading the wrong statistics.

Well you are certainly reading things that haven't been posted. If we are just going to let COVID be like the flu, to become endemic, for tens of thousands of people a day to be infected with it here, what impact do you think that would have on countries who were trying to suppress it?

 

[grandjoeblue]

Well you are certainly reading things that haven't been posted. If we are just going to let COVID be like the flu, to become endemic, for tens of thousands of people a day to be infected with it here, what impact do you think that would have on countries who were trying to suppress it?

It's widespread across the world. Supression clearly doesn't work in the long term, that's very obvious for anyone to see. Fair play to countries like South Korea but they are outliers not the norm.